Culture

Yes, Men Have Problems — But The Men’s Rights Movement Doesn’t Come Close To Dealing With Them

Wherever there is a man feeling sad about his place in the world, there the men’s rights movement will be: defending to the death his right to blame a woman for it.

When I first heard about the Men’s Rights Movement, I was naturally extremely interested. After all, I am a man, and I quite like having rights. In fact, I’m in favour of rights for all men, so any movement which supported that, I thought, would be right up my alley.

Imagine my disappointment when I discovered the Men’s Rights Movement is not so much a group of men making a serious attempt to address issues of importance to men, or trying to help male fellows everywhere become the best men they can be in the modern world, as it is a sort of United Federation of Crybabies: a semi-coordinated international network of drooling paranoiacs who think women are their enemy and take every advance made by a group that doesn’t include them as a direct attack on their basic human rights. To many men’s right activists, the only possible response to anyone suggesting a little nudge of the balance away from the male side is rabid, fang-baring aggression, savage attacks – that manage to be simultaneously noisily brutish and pathetically childish – on the people they think are their enemies, which run the gamut from women, to men who like women.

These sad, strange creatures exist in a state of cat-like readiness, a permanent pose of spittle-flecked defence against what they are certain are real and deadly threats to their way of life. They will, to be sure, stand up for their rights: wherever there is a man feeling sad about his place in the world, there the men’s rights movement will be, defending to the death his right to blame a woman for it.

The world is infested with men who believe they are under attack, and whose only response is a zero tolerance policy: to scream oppression and turn the cannons on every woman who causes them discomfort. We saw it last week in the lunatic response to rumours that Sue Perkins would be taking over Top Gear – wishes of death, of burning alive, directed at a woman for the sin of hypothetically appearing on one’s favourite TV show. We see it in the minimisation of atrocities perpetrated by men, and the attempts to blame women for the violence visited upon them: the provocation defences of wife-beaters; the “what was she doing out that late?” of the Jill Meagher murder; the “he’s a good boy really” of the Luke Lazarus case, and others like it. We see it in the unhinged extremes of the abuse piled upon female politicians, in the shrill rants of Alan Jones against Julia Gillard, or the idiotic belittling by Tim Blair of women whose politics he disagrees with. We see it in the right-wing commentator who claims Hillary Clinton is “too ugly” to be President, and in our own prime minister’s babbling about ironing. We see it in Sam Newman’s vicious slurs on women in the football world, and in every hysterical protest against female encroachment on male sporting realms. We see it in the mad crusades of the Gamergaters. We see it in the staunch defences put up by men-only social clubs, and indeed in tireless efforts of so many men to keep women out of all the little clubs, the fraternities, the spheres that they for so long thought reserved for them by divine right.

Everywhere, men are crying foul over women encroaching on their world, and are convinced that all the problems bedevilling their lives are a direct result of it. And it’s this mentality – this idea that men are being hunted, persecuted and emasculated by a world of man-hating harpies – that gives birth to the Men’s Rights Movement: a movement that devotes itself to a warped looking-glass version of what it claims to represent.

I have news for those of my fellow men who designate themselves defenders of “men’s rights”, those of my fellow men who snarl and spit at the idea of feminism as a conspiracy to castrate. That news is: we have problems, brothers, and you’re not even close to identifying what they actually are.

Oh, I understand. Sometimes women are mean to me, too. That’s life, guys: sometimes people aren’t nice to you. But you think it’s the feminists who are going to destroy you? You think it’s shrill, screechy harridans who are going to bring your world crashing down around you? You need to wake up, shut up about “men’s rights” and start thinking about actual men’s actual rights.

Men have got problems. We get sick. We get depressed. We hurt ourselves, and kill ourselves. And we hurt others, and kill others – about 80 percent of violent crime in Australia is committed by men. If a woman is assaulted or murdered, a man probably did it. If a man is assaulted or murdered, a man probably did it. There are men and women being attacked by women out there, but we know which way the numbers lean – and if you pretend that you don’t know, pipe down and let the grown-ups talk.

Men have got problems. Men are destroying lives – and let me be very clear here: it’s not just their victims, but their own lives they’re destroying. There are times I fear that my daughters might grow up to be victims of a violent man, but just as often I fear that my son might grow up to be a violent man. And while the former is something I simply have to hope doesn’t come about, the latter is something I can, I believe, have some little influence on.

And that’s men’s rights, right there. If you want to stand up for men’s rights, how about we stand up for the right to grow up to be a good, decent man, to be all that a man can be? Let us, as men, support the right of our fellow men to not ruin their own lives with hatred and violence. Let’s push for the right of all men to live happily alongside women as equals. Let’s fight for men’s right to live in the modern world as fully-developed people. Women are not the enemy, and they never were. The enemy is anyone telling us it has to be this way, that there really is a “battle of the sexes”, anyone keeping a wall between men and women because they’re more comfortable with the status quo, and they’d rather be comfortable and unhappy than find a way to change things for the better.

Men have got problems. A man who will start a fight outside a pub has problems. A man who will hit his girlfriend has problems. A man who will explode with rage and tell a stranger he wants to see her burn has problems. I believe every man has the right to not have problems like these. Do the men’s rights activists agree? Or is the only right they’ll defend the right to waste your life in pointless fury? It’s their choice.

Ben Pobjie is a writer and comedian, whose work is seen in The Age, New Matilda, the Guardian, the Roar, and more. He tweets from @BenPobjie

Screen shot from Parks and Recreation

Comments

Comments

  1. Lauren Mack says:

    Great article. I wish there were more men like you – perhaps they should all have daughters and understand what it’s like the see the world from a female perspective; we have to be more afraid than men, and you fear for your daughters on this account. They aren’t entirely defenseless though. It sounds silly, and very few people suggest it, but teaching women self defense is a great start to helping them protect themselves. Yes, teaching boys to not hurt women is more important, but that cultural change will be slow, and in the mean time women can learn to protect themselves should they need. I learned self-defense growing up and it not only built my confidence, it reduced my fear and helped me understand situations from a tactical perspective. Obviously removing one’s self from a dangerous situation is the optimal choice, but sometimes we don’t have that choice. And as is common knowledge, rape is usually committed by someone known to the victim so women are more often caught in that situation. Some schools have a short (very short) program that attempts to teach boys what is and is not rape, but this doesn’t address the issue of self control, or responsibility. It’s basically about scaring them away from sex (which will NEVER work) by throwing a dictionary-definition at them. There is no REAL sexual education in schools, and no education in respect either.

  2. Samanjj says:

    There is a fine line between being pro harmony and humanity and becoming anti men or women in that pursuit. Painting all men as potential rapists and murderers is over the top hyperbole and is a gender based stereo type that we need to stay away from. However, teaching our young boys to respect others and express themselves with words, a sense of humour and creativity instead of violence should start early. The physical strengths we naturally have as men long ago are no longer helpful in the same way in a mind dominant civilised world. We were expected to be dominant through force; read your history books it wasn’t that long ago. These energies can be put to good use through creative pursuits like sports and arts as well as mind challenges. For those boys who like a good fight and healthy acceptable competition, these right outlets (football, fencing, debating, chess, computer games, painting, music) need to exist.

  3. Ed says:

    I’d been working under the assumption that MRAs were more-or-less an American thing. Turns out the guy who runs the abhorrent and insane http://www.manbook.biz lives in the same small regional city as me. Hooboy.

  4. MsDemeanor says:

    MRAs are the worst, they do nothing to support men who need it and are only interested in spreading disinformation about feminism and they hate women.

  5. Pandora Karavan says:

    Excellence happened

  6. Terry Wrist says:

    Can’t say i approve of this whole feminist and MRA B/s.Lets just have equality for all, start with allowing women to be conscripted in times of war.Equality.

  7. pto says:

    yes, and let’s allow men to give birth…

  8. Richard Seglenieks says:

    Yes, because it’s always best to start dealing with an issue that pervades every area of society by addressing something that hasn’t happened in this country for 40 years.

  9. Terry Wrist says:

    Gamergate was about ethics in journalism, it had nothing to do with Sarkeesian or any feminist issues.

  10. Terry Wrist says:

    Could easily happen in the future, thats no reason to deny women equality in conscription.Check your privilege.

  11. Terry Wrist says:

    Was a comedy sketch in the 90’s.Now it is reality.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iqKjPDGWE&index=1&list=FL4N-OB_Ro2pNiQfmdhKOQ1w

  12. Richard Seglenieks says:

    I’m not denying that equality. The fact that there is no provision in Australian law for conscription indicates that there is also no provision regarding whether it would be men only or both men and women. Making up a hypothetical future situation that isn’t based on our country’s laws doesn’t make for a strong argument.

  13. Richard Seglenieks says:

    Feel free to have a quick read over what actually happened:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
    Unless you’re so paranoid that you think Wikipedia is controlled by the feminist agenda.

  14. Terry Wrist says:

    Please, we all know the feminists would never agree to conscription.They’re too busy whining about crap like man-spreading.

    I could post a dozen cherry picked articles like this article has done showing what a straw-man argument he is making.Remember this classic? It’s topical.
    http://www.digitalspy.com.au/australian-tv/news/a368428/the-circles-yumi-stynes-apologises-for-mocking-aussie-war-hero.html#~paoUIxfRHPjIjt

    The Circle host Yumi Stynes has apologised for mocking a war hero on television.

    TheAustralian TV star caused outrage when she appeared to mock Australian Victoria Cross medal recipient Ben Roberts-Smith on the Channel Ten
    chatshow earlier this week.

    As viewers were shown a photograph of
    Roberts-Smith in a pool, Stynes said: “He’s going to dive down to the bottom of the pool to see if his brain is there.”

    Second : Male celebrities get twice as much abuse as female celebrities on twitter
    http://www.demos.co.uk/press_releases/demosmalecelebritiesreceivemoreabuseontwitterthanwomen

    An analysis of 2 million tweets by the think tank Demos reveals that
    male public figures are several times more likely than women to receive
    abuse on Twitter.

    The think-tank analysed 2,006,616 tweets over a two-week period that
    were sent to a selection of the most prominent and widely-followed
    public figures on Twitter.

    The study included celebrities, politicians, journalists and
    musicians – specifically chosen to ensure an equal number – roughly one
    million – were aimed at each gender.

    It found:

    2.54% of the tweets containing the @ username of male public
    figures contained abuse, compared to only 0.95% of the tweets
    received by prominent women.

    Over 1 in 20 (5.19%) of the tweets sent to male celebrities
    included abuse, compared with 1 in 70 (1.37%) aimed at female
    celebrities.

  15. Terry Wrist says:

    Was nothing to do with that, it was about game developers getting “cosy” with game reviewers.The outrage was centred around a female game developer sleeping with male game reviewers.

    As for Sarkeesian well the dislike of her really shot up when this video appeared of her admitting that she doesn’t like games.Basically her whole kickstarter campaign was a lie and she defrauded people of money through fraud.Direct quote “I am not a fan of video games”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afgtd8ZsXzI

  16. Richard Seglenieks says:

    Citing a bunch of irrelevant facts also doesn’t make a strong argument – I can only assume you meant to post this somewhere else or copy-pasted the wrong text.

    In case you just forgot, we were discussing conscription.

  17. DougDante says:

    Thank you for your coverage of the men’s rights movement. However, I think your coverage is biased.

    The following action opportunities seek to promote justice. If you like, you can use the source materials for analysis, or use the action opportunities to seek justice and change the double standards. You can find links to these by search for them at reddit dot com slash r slash mractivism or visit reddit dot com slash r slash mensrights. Please be sure to read the FAQ.

    Action Opportunity: Investigate the Appearance of Discrimination Against Boy and Man Domestic Violence Victims

    Action Opportunity: Investigate illegal VAWA and CPS discrimination: Physically and sexually abused boy says abuse and brother’s death were covered up

    Action Opportunity: Illegal Discrimination Against Male Domestic Violence Victims Kills in Pennsylvania

    Action Opportunity: End USDOJ Support for Illegal Discrimination against Boy, Men, LGBT, and Minority Domestic Violence Victims in New Jersey

    Action Opportunity: Illegal VAWA Discrimination Against Boy and Men Victims Continues in California, Alaska, Michigan and Nationwide

    Action Opportunity: Investigate criminal VAWA discrimination: A New York man is the victim of domestic violence, but when he sought help, police falsified evidence and charged him instead

    Action Opportunity: Ask USDOJ to Investigate Possible Civil Rights Violations Leading to the Suicide of Chris Mackney

    (California)

    Action Opportunity: Remind the USDOJ and HHS: The way male domestic abuse victims and their children are treated is a crime

    Action Opportunity: Please join me to protect the rights of impoverished African American boys and men in Ferguson, Missouri and elsewhere

    Action Opportunity: Illegal Discrimination Against Boys and Men Victims Continues Nationwide This Labor Day Weekend 2014

    Action Opportunity: End Shameless Sexism by HHS and DOJ Contracting Agencies; Stop Selectively Ignoring Maternal Kidnapping

    Raped boys in prison:

    Action Opportunity: All some Michigan boys want for Christmas is for for the authorities to protect them from rape

    Action Opportunity: USDOJ Please Stop Protecting Female Pedophile Guards

    Other:

    Action Opportunity: Reform CDC Funded Research that Ignores Boy, Man, and LGBT Victims of Domestic Violence

    Action Opportunity: Illegal Discrimination Against Boys and Men Continues in Tennessee, Ohio, Florida and Nationwide

    Germany:

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    Join me in calling for justice for all male victims of domestic and sexual violence in the UK:

    Action Opportunity: Urge the UK not to systematically discriminate against boys, men, and LGBT victims of domestic violence

    Action Opportunity: Urge EU and UK to End the Systematic Violations of the Rights Boys, Men, and their Children in the UK

    Action Opportunity: Tell the EU and Scotland to Stop Violating the Rights of Boy and Man DV Victims

    Elsewhere:

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    Action Opportunity: End Illegal Discrimination Against Boy and Man Victims of Domestic and Sexual Violence in Canada

  18. Richard Seglenieks says:

    By “Was nothing to do with that” do you mean that Gamergate was nothing to do with everything that a very thoroughly referenced article says it involved? I understand it’s tough when evidence doesn’t agree with your personal opinions but accepting that is part of growing up.

  19. Charlie Hurd says:

    Ho, hum, another biased article against men who are willing stand up for men and to talk about issues that affect men. Just a hint, we’re not all rich and famous or heads of state or large corporations.

  20. Terry Wrist says:

    A law could be created in the future, during a future conflict.Lets hope they include females in conscription and move into the 21st century.Could we be like Norway? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/10124998/Norway-votes-to-extend-conscription-to-women.html

    Or will the feminists shoot it down like they did in the USA?
    http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/DG051-099/dg068.wcoc/dg068.wcochistory.htm

    The Women’s Committee to Oppose Conscription, the subject of
    this paper, was organized early in 1943 to combat legislative action
    first surrounding the conscription of women, and then, peacetime
    conscription for all young people. The organizers of the Committee
    clearly supported the equal rights of women, but were opposed to any
    extension of registration or conscription to the female portion of
    the population. Like other women’s organizations of the period the
    WCOC combined feminist arguments and traditional views of women’s
    place in society to support their position. The history, strategy,
    philosophy, and politics of the WCOC, place the organization in the
    center of women’s politics, pacifist politics, and feminist pacifism
    of the middle of the twentieth century. The women of the WCOC used
    their connections and networks within the peace movement, and within
    other women’s organizations to fight against legislative action over
    the conscription of women.

  21. Richard Seglenieks says:

    Just to clarify, you legitimately think that the best way to deal with gender inequality is to create a law that states that if conscription were ever to be reinstated it would include men and women equally – even though there is no indication that Australia intends to use conscription and it would impact exactly zero people?

  22. pto says:

    “start with allowing women to be conscripted in times of war”. Translation “OMG, I have a killer argument that makes those lefties see how dumb they were”. In Terry world that sort of thinking actually makes sense and I’m sure he thought it was an actually clever argument.

  23. ghebert says:

    What exactly are you afraid of? Men are more likely to be victims of street crime such as muggings and assault as well as homicide. Women are very safe compared to men, yet we are not afraid and you are…why do you think that is? It is because women are taught and conditioned to fear men…they are taught that every man is a potential attacker. You are the safest demographic yet find it is justifiable for the author to call us crybabies because we wish to bring attention to the fact that we face higher suicide rates, that we face a rape culture that denies the existence of female on male rape and mocks those men who are brave enough to come forward and speak out on ehat happened to them and we tell young boys raped by their female teachers how lucky they are and high five them.

  24. Ohone says:

    Pro feminist editors tend to control pages of interest to, even the mens rights wiki is a battle ground.

  25. Jordan Bates says:

    He has a point, in the State as a male you have to be eligible for conscription if you’re to be given the right to vote. It’s hidden away in politik garble, but when women got the vote they weren’t included in this requirement.

    Why do you think men and women got the vote in the first place? It’s because so many men died in WW1, not because of sufragettes or any of the bs.

  26. Jordan Bates says:

    Sure, and we’re just going to believe what you say? Man, why do dogs bark when other dogs start barking? I just don’t get it!

  27. The fact that this poorly written piece starts off with childish characterizations made it almost unreadable.. It’d be nice if criticism came in the form of real analysis, and not middle school insults

  28. Bob says:

    Stop the casual man-hating and boy-hating, please, it’s disgusting.

    Also, your average man has FAR MORE reason to be afraid of violence than your average woman. Open you eyes. Spread your empathy a bit wider.

  29. CDB says:

    Not true. Men and women experience violence differently. Men are more likely to die in war, to experience youth violence and to be attacked by a stranger. However, the violence women face is much more insidious. Women are more likely to be killed and experience violence in their own homes perpetrated by a man known to them. They are also more likely to be sexually abused as children (1 in 10 as opposed to boys 1 in 20). Women are also confronted by violence at different stages in their life from sex selective abortion, FGM, domestic violence and widow abuse. Violence against women is the most common human rights violation in the world. 80% of domestic homocides are women killed by their male partners. Whereas, regardless of whether the victim is male or female, the perpetrator is usually male. These are facts, feel free to look them up. The crimes you mention are true but they are in the minority. Male suicide rate does need to be addressed (as does female), agreed. However, are you really intending to address these problems by persecuting the most oppressed group in the world? You should own your privilege.

  30. Knucklehead says:

    It was about a no talent skank from an extraordinarily privileged family that was able to keep all mention of her sleeping around to get jobs in the gaming industry censored on major websites, while said major websites also characterized all those that brought this up as misogynists. It kinda was about the feminist double standard too.

  31. About Mens Issues says:

    Do you really believe you can ONLY have an influence with your son? Who then should be the male role model for your girls? I can only imagine it would have to be their MOTHER! Well, in your way of abusively using your access to mass media, to belittle and nullify ALL men who DARE bare their hurt and frustration with VERY LEGITIMATE and real concerns, reguarding the UNFAIRNESS of how, in the majority of cases that involve a man and a woman. MEN are assumed guilty or wrong immediately, before any proceedings or arguments begin.
    Your type of spewing i am sure comes by way of being the submisive husband who must not rock your previous boat and have jumped on the bandwagon of “if a man can’t take being hurt by a woman” he isnt a man???
    Grow up mr. and try to take the hypocrisy out of your existance and acknowledge that even if the men who are abused are a minority, doesn’t mean they don’t matter.
    Also if you want to wear dresses, thats your right- don’t attempt to pretend to be a man and persuade your readers that men and women are equals to the point of men doing all the same things as women do and expecting woman to do all the things men do.
    I rather appreciate and am attracted to feminine Women. I cant imagine a world without moms and grandmoms, girlfriends and the more fragile daughter than possibly that of my sons.
    I am a pro-choice MAN (yes, a penis carrying man) and i consider a man should be entitled to fair treatment just as much as any woman. On a case by case basis, NOT JUDGED by statistics as you have plainly stated.
    Now maybe you should consult with your female boss to see what is okay to write next. Remember no crying, thats for girls only???

  32. LF says:

    No, domestic voilence against women is NOT the most common. According to a 2010 national survey by the Centers for Disease Control and Department of Justice, in the prior 12 months more men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men. Something all men know. I have never hit a woman but have been hit by four women. Women are violent and more so because they know most men would never raise a hand against a woman.

    Get your facts from something other than the two professors in women’s studies who have been pushing their statistics to congress for the last decade…

  33. ghebert says:

    This is not the oppression olympics. You don’t win the right to have your issues addressed only if your group has higher victimization rates. Everyone deserves compassion, access to shelters and resources…and to have their voices heard and be taken seriously regardless of who gets it worse. Privilege is just another excuse to paint men as whiners who need to shut up about their issues and only give deference to women’s issues because according to you they are the “most oppressed group in the world”. I’m not denying women face oppression in 3rd world countries but don’t for one second tell me with a straight face that women in North America face any kind of oppression. What rights do men have in Western culture that women do not? Women can do anything men can. Men don’t have reproductive rights and routinely face anti-male bias in family courts and in the justice system in general. Once we start addressing issues like domestic violence and sexual assault/abuse as human issues instead of simply women’s issues, maybe then we will start getting somewhere.

  34. Anti-feminist says:

    Junkee says it all.

  35. Anti-feminist says:

    Women simply FEAR violence a lot more than do men thanks to female biology and feminine sociology. But by any OBJECTIVE (read ‘patriarchal’) measure, males overwhelmingly do the dying so bigoted fascist females (feminists) and their loathsome male flunkies can do the lying…about men. To pretend that the Coddled ‘Gender’ suffers violence at anything close to that which the Disposable Sex endures is simply more monstrous falsehood from our favorite fascist frauds.

  36. Anti-feminist says:

    Right, because young men are now bought to do the dying and killing for the anti-male gender bigots who run/rape Western nations….rather than conscripted. Therefore, its even easier to ignore the disposable MALE cannon fodder because only the poor or the foolish pay the ultimate price to secure the rest of the society.

  37. Anti-feminist says:

    As if NOT the pain and suffering were remotely comparable.

  38. NHLfarmteams says:

    Oh great, another beta male white knight thinking by dissing on MRAs he will curry favour with the poor oppressed women. You do know that it doesn’t work right. You will get empathy from the “all women are victims crowd” like little Lauren below with the tired old arguments that boys can’t resist their “urges” but men (real men) just laugh at you.

    Equality has been achieved in every meaningful fashion in the western world. What we have now is princess pedestal society where men’s issues are ignored and men are censured. Any mention of men’s issues is met with harsh rebukes lest it take focus away from all the female victims and don’t forget about the money.

    The whole domestic violence industry is supported by feminist sponsored social science surveys designed to obfuscate the data to support liberal funding.

    The growth of movements like MGTOW are real. The value proposition for men to marry women just doesn’t hold water and men are waking up.

    You can dismiss THE MRAs all you want but they aren’t going anywhere. In the same way the men dismissed feminism as a fad it’s here to stay. You better get used to it.

  39. edtastic says:

    This article is total bull crap. First of all both men and women are men’s rights activist and those women like Allison Tiemen and Karen Straughn are among the most powerful voices. The intrinsic sexism in feminism is a problem. It makes encourages traditionalist attitudes in men who are hostile to the realities of male vulnerability. This also blinds them to raw power of women’s gender lobbying which has no real rival to check it’s excesses leading to moral panic and bad public policy. We aee this with campus rape and overly aggressive child support enforcement throwing poor fathers in prison for being poor. The madness needs tobstip along with the relentless bullying by those in the press more keen on protecting their influence than telling the truth.

    It’s poor minorities that bear the brunt of so many of these anti male l, anti father policies and it’s poor families that are torn apart by a gender war mentality in the elite establishment that presumes the sexes are rivals instead of natural partners with common goals and interest. We need to evolve the gender debate and men’s rights are at the forefront of doing that. The one sided narratives propagated by a dishonest media and academic establishment is getting us no where. Let me correct that. It’s taking us backwards to a time when women were treated like children because they were assumed to be weaker than men rather than equals.

  40. edtastic says:

    “However, the violence women face is much more insidious”

    Men are 75% of homicide victims and 80% of self inflicted suicides which in USA amount to nearly 4 times the number of homicides (15000 vs 40000). The only special claim women have is that because they are women we ought care about them more which is backwards traditionalist garbage. Feminism is fueled by these traditionalist tendencies such as the scientifically proven women are wonderful effect that results in women getting 60% shorter sentences for the same crime.

  41. edtastic says:

    Stop being an idiot pandering to people who don’t give a a damn about you. Our sons aren’t well served by cowardly men who refuse to defend them because they fear feminists will call them losers.

  42. pto says:

    Good heavens! I expected the tinfoil hat crowd to make an appearance before long on an article like this, but man, you’ve really delivered! That is as crazy as anything I’ve read in a while.

  43. pto says:

    No he hasn’t got a point. Using an argument like that is just pure trolling. Of all the arguments you could bring out for equality, this is just about the least important one an the only reason he pulled it out is to elicit a response.

  44. MsDemeanor says:

    Cry me a river Jordan.

  45. Lauren Mack says:

    You’re mistaken believing it’s man-hating. But if that’s what you think it is, then you’ve proven yourself a person incapable of understanding the idea of gender equality, and you completely misunderstand feminism. Have a nice day.

  46. Lauren Mack says:

    What you’re saying, and the way you and all the women-haters speak about this issue, actually detracts from finding a solution. Women ARE predominantly the victims of sexual or domestic violence, and by victims I mean KILLED, not just abused. And this is done by men known to them as well as strangers. Men perceive a weakness in women because we are–physically–not as strong, therefore make easy targets. We are also ‘desirable objects’, so men’s perception of women is messed up. Yes, men are targets too. But, like the stats show, men are responsible for around 80-90% of crime in the UK (this stat is pretty much representative of all English speaking western countries. I haven’t looked into European countries yet.) They also commit about 98% of sexual crimes. This shows that women have also committed sexual crimes, but are so much less likely too, and focusing on 2% of a situation is utterly unhelpful. So here is the problem, we have one gender committing most of the crime, with a high percentage of the other gender being the victims. It is natural for women to speak up about this. If men joined in rather than criticising like you are doing, it can open further debate that focuses on the perpetrators, RATHER than the victims. We need to change masculine culture, but I’m not sure how that’ll happen with sexism being a favourite flavour of some men. Femininity is frowned up. Don’t run like a girl. Don’t cry like a girl. Be tough. The way society raises boys only continues to push them into the role of perpetrator. You speak about empathy? This is the key to reducing violent and sexual crimes committed by men. So get on board rathe than being a hater.

  47. Lauren Mack says:

    Women have been fighting for rights over their own reproductive organs for half a century, and still there are places that believe women shouldn’t get a say. Even in first world countries. It is true that a mother is more likely to win custody over a child than a father, and this stems from cultural bias and a stereotype that women are better nurturers. But hey, look at the number of female workers in child care services and it seems that women do have a stronger preference to take care of children than men do. Do a bit of research first my friend.

  48. KellyJelly says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. The defensive vitriol in the comments is only proving you right.

  49. pto says:

    “I have never hit a woman but have been hit by four women.” You know, reading a sentence like that, I’d think it might be a good idea to have a look at yourself.
    I hate the culture of victim blaming but you still have to ask, if you keep getting hit by women, could it not be something to do with yourself?

  50. Paul Mitchell says:

    Loved Ben’s humour, as always, and love him for saying all the things he said. It’s a pity that he – or any other man – has to point out things that should be so obvious! I would have liked to have found out a bit about the Men’s Rights Movement in his piece though. To know what fired him up so much. Would have made the article more incisive.

  51. Bob says:

    I understand it very well. Rather than hiding behind definitions of feminism, how about rereading your man and boy-hating diatribe with open eyes and see your own gender bias. Spread your empathy a bit wider. Please.

  52. Fred says:

    Flip that around, could you ever imagine yourself asking a woman if it was her fault that four of her partners had assaulted her? There are plenty of bat shit crazy women out there, willing to take advantage of what they see as a weakness.

  53. Fred says:

    What about the reproductive organs of circumsiced male babies? Noone asked the baby if he wanted his anatomy permanently altered.Get over yourself.

  54. pto says:

    Yes, that’s why I put that victim-blaming line in. No one deserves to be assaulted and you should not have to feel guilty for being assaulted, but I’ve never come across a man who got seriously assaulted by a woman, let alone four. I’d be asking myself if I’m such an insufferable person that I drive others to become idiots or if my taste in women is just a bit odd.

  55. Angelo says:

    I am a founder member of F4J UK. Perhaps you do not think it is right that we have been fighting for men’s equal rights within the family since 2002. You think that we ‘infest’?

    Let me help you to understand what we have discovered, much of which flies in the face of feminist propaganda that we have been fed for several generations. May I begin by saying I love women and I have done so for 30 years with considerable success. This is irrelevant to the following facts.

    Men are virtually 100% of work place deaths.
    80% of the homeless
    May be legally strapped to a table when only days old and have 60% of the pleasure sensors ripped from their penis without anaesthetic, male infant ritual genital mutilation known by the soft name circumcision.
    Down to 40% at Uni and falling fast.
    No progenitive rights to speak of.
    Are twice as likely to be charged for the exact same crime
    Do twice the time for the exact same crime
    Die in far greater numbers in every conflict.
    4 times more likely to suicide. Up from 2:1 40 years ago.

    Please do not get me wrong, I am not whining about this, but in the face of the guff that we are hearing from radical feminists, I am furious about it.

    If you think that pointing out and trying to effect positive change against the above to achieve real equality is whining, then you are the definition of a white knight mangina. Let me be clear it is not because we ate women, we don’t and if you had bothered to do some research you would know that many of us are women e.g. the US honey badgers and UK purple hearts, but because you are slapping down a movement intent on reversing the disgraceful trends I have pointed out above.

    Men trump women in the victim Olympics ever time, I double dare you to prove one way that any European or Anglo-sphere government benefits men over women.

    Your whole essay seems to be a PUA exercise. The worst kind of traitor is one against his own kind, give yourself a round of applause for fulfilling that remit admirably.

  56. Terry Wrist says:

    Couple of facts for you here.
    Fact 1 : In circumstances where a child is killed by one parent, it is the mother who is the offender in almost 3/4 of cases.
    Fact 2 : Women in lesbian relationships are almost twice as likely to be a victim of domestic violence than women in heterosexual relationships.

    The DHHS data shows that of children abused by one parent between 2001 and 2006, 70.6% were abused by their mothers, whereas only 29.4% were abused by their
    fathers.

    And of children who died at the hands of one parent between 2001 and 2006, 70.8% were killed by their mothers,whereas only 29.2% were killed by their fathers.

    Furthermore, contrary to media portrayals that leave the
    viewer with the impression that only girls are ever harmed,
    boys constituted fully 60% of child fatalities.

    http://www.breakingthescience.org/SimplifiedDataFromDHHS.php

    The National Violence Against Women survey
    found that 21.5 percent of men and 35.4 percent of women living with a
    same-sex partner experienced intimate-partner physical violence in their
    lifetimes, compared with 7.1% and 20.4% for men and women,
    respectively, with a history of only opposite-sex cohabitation.
    Transgender respondents had an incidence of 34.6 percent over a lifetime
    according to a Massachusetts survey.

    http://www.advocate.com/crime/2014/09/04/2-studies-prove-domestic-violence-lgbt-issue

  57. You are *is* victim blaming. That is unacceptable. No one deserves to get assaulted.

  58. Merely mentioning victim blaming does not excuse it.

    Just because you haven’t come across men seriously assaulted doesn’t mean it is rare. The data is well established – but assaults by women are not reported in the media in the same manner, so if you didn’t bother to do some research it you might think that women rarely commit violent acts. You’d be wrong.

  59. Why do you accuse ghebert of being a hater? Please provide specific examples to back up this claim.

  60. That’s a circular argument.

  61. I’m an MRA. I am on the editorial staff of A Voice for Men. Is it your assertion that I hate women?

  62. My research suggests that site is run by Peter Nolan. Most MRAs refuse to have anything to do with Nolan.

    It’s up to you to choose whether you want to continue believing what other people tell you about the men’s rights movement or investigate for yourself.

    You might just discovered we’re not such bad people :)

  63. Samanjj says:

    Oh man what a dick move. Physical violence should never be excused.

  64. Samanjj says:

    the wealth of the single parent is usually the best single indicator of the child’s well being not their sex. of course if the father or mother has any other tendencies that could harm the child then the other should win that battle. point being, the courts stereotype but that is no excuse.

  65. Samanjj says:

    going to war a soldier in the front lines by force in defence of your country is one of the key privileges men have. are you saying women defending their country shouldn’t have this privilege assuming they already have other day to day rights like divorce, driving, right to choose, voting, equal pay, so on

  66. pto says:

    I’m not excusing it, at all. But we have to be able to find reasons for violence. We can’t just say “some people are evil”. That gets dangerously close to “terrorists just hate our freedom” territory. There may not be an excuse, but there’s always a reason for violence.

  67. pto says:

    I think you’re getting where I come from completely wrong. I don’t try to excuse it, I try to find reasons why violence happens. Skirting the debate and leaving it with “some people are just evil” is never going to get us anywhere.

  68. Samanjj says:

    sorry this article is too simple and your point makes no sense. if they complain the article is right, if they don’t complain the article is right. what could be said to discredit this simple article?

  69. Richard Seglenieks says:

    No I’m not saying that and I never said anything remotely like that.

  70. Angelo says:

    We will have a very good day when feminism is marginalized to oblivion. Oh happy day.

    P.S. It is foolish to hide behind dictionary definitions when radical feminist actions speak louder than words.

  71. pto says:

    If I read this as “it will be a good day when we have equality and feminism is no longer required”, you actually sound like a reasonable person. I have a suspicion that’s not intended though…

  72. Ed says:

    I have a daughter, and I’m raising her correctly by teaching her to avoid men like you. My hope is that the MRA movement will be a temporary blot on history.

  73. NBBBMO says:

    Yet, again, spot on Ben and let the MRA complaints begin.

  74. NBBBMO says:

    Neither is Ben Pobjie. Next.

  75. NBBBMO says:

    What a surprise. A man dismissing a woman’s lived experience and telling her how she should and should not feel and what she should and should not fear because he has been a woman…zero times. What are we afraid of? Ha ha ha ha. You lie if you don’t know.
    I have not met one woman who denies male suicide rates or that men are raped. Shut up you disingenuous arrogant fool.

  76. NBBBMO says:

    Two per week Fred? Eh?

  77. NBBBMO says:

    And where is the epidemic of men being murdered by their female partners? And where is the violence orders on these women. BS.

  78. NBBBMO says:

    So when it’s 31 dead Australian men this year as a result of female violence, you tell me about how women and men are equal.

  79. NBBBMO says:

    I must remember not to read the comments and to also remember that arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon-no matter how good you are, that bird will shit on the board and strut around as if it’s won anyway. The MRA shitstorm is here. I have an umbrella, so I care not. The world is changing fellas, nothing you can do.

  80. See table 10 in the document below. Compare the figures for IPV (intimate partner violence) for men and women. More similar than you expected?

    http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/21/mr21.pdf

    And yes the perpetrators in those cases are women. Male-male relationships show the lowest levels of IPV (female-female show the highest).

  81. As for the orders against women – they are often nonexistent.

    There are inherent biases in law enforcement and the judiciary. In the US they admit this through the use of the ‘Duluth model’ which explicitly posits DV to be part of men’s attempt to assert patriarchal control over women.

    Other countries have taken on the methods and outlook of Duluth without the name. Yes, the US is more open in its biases than Australia is.

  82. Fraga123 says:

    No rights for men….NO RIGHTS!!!!!!

  83. Fraga123 says:

    Every day you suffer the Male Gaze.

    Survivor, Activist, Woman.

    I salute your bravery.

  84. Andrew Richards says:

    No what Ben Hurd is, is a typical man – a socially brainwashed drone who is so invested in his self image and self-worth being based around being the good little unquestioning protector and provider of women, that if you took that away from him, he would literally have no sense of self-image or self-worth whatsoever- in the same way that only a century ago, it was the norm for women to have their self-image exclusively defined by their reproductive capabilities.

  85. Angelo says:

    Your suspicion is well founded and based on your own misunderstanding. I believe that you are labouring under the gross misapprehension that the current dictionary definition of feminism is correct when in fact if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, like current feminism, then it is in fact shit.

    As a men’s human rights activist (UK F4J) since 2002, I have only met
    opposition from radical feminists in government, women MPs in the UK who inform us by their very actions that fathers are irrelevant.

    The most important thing the raison d’être of many men today stomped on and we otherwise in general are the Niggers of modern society sitting at the back of the bus.

    I repeat, in comparison to women men are:

    Men are virtually 100% of work place deaths.
    80% of the homeless
    May be legally strapped to a table when only days old and have 60% of the
    pleasure sensors ripped from their penis without anaesthetic, male infant ritual genital mutilation known by the soft name circumcision.
    Down to 40% at Uni and falling fast.
    Are twice as likely to be charged for the exact same crime
    Do twice the time for the exact same crime
    Die in far greater numbers in every conflict.
    No progenitive rights to speak of.
    4 times more likely to suicide.

    All of the above and more and Emma Watson is wheeled out to tell us we need a heforshe movement, …because of demented modern feminism that does not care one jot about men and has nothing to do with the dictionary definition.

    And I repeat, please do not get me wrong, I am not whining about this, but in the face of the guff that we are hearing from radical feminists, I am furious about it.

    Men trump women in the victim Olympics every time, I double dare you to prove one way that any European or Anglo-sphere government benefits men over women.

    The dictionary definition of feminism should be retitled Men’s rights activism because our actions better fit the description. We are looking for true equality and not a male version of the pussy pass or superiority.

  86. brxman says:

    This is a sad article by disturbed writer.

    Back at the start of the second wave feminist movement, there were “consciousness raising meetings,” where women would talk.

    That proved successful.

    And now that men are in that phase, this author and feminist deride “consciousness raising.”

    How utterly sexist and obnoxious is this modern male who seems to write like a Prancing Peacock, determined to ingratiate himself with feminists while he throws his brothers under the bus, for laughs.

    Try some compassion Ben, or learn about the real MRA, not what hear from the spiteful feminists who are posting here.

  87. A lot of people misunderstand the men’s rights movement.

    That’s why I penned the document below. I hope you take the time to read it.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/an-introduction-to-the-mens-rights-movement/

  88. Andrew Richards says:

    Ben, as a male survivor of female-perpetrated child abuse, institutional child sexual abuse where a female teacher led the charge on the coverup and female-perpetrated domestic violence (as well as a male-perpetrated GBH), I can honestly say that your response reeks of domestic violence apologetics, rape apologetics and child abuse apologetics.

    You claim to support equality, yet you are clearly so trapped by male privilege and the socially proscribed role of unquestioning male protector and provider of women, that you are incapable of recognising that your attitudes are part of the problem.

    Yes men have serious problems and responses like yours compound those problems. In fact I can honestly say that as one of the men you claim to speak for, you simply further stigmatise and isolate us.

    You claim to seek to help male victims of abuse, yet like all feminists – and yes, your response is a blatantly feminist one – you arbitrarily regard all abuse as as a manifestation of “female oppression” – “a product of male power”. Under your dogmatic ideological view of abuse, any male who discloses abuse – man or boy – is either lying or “the ‘real’ abuser” or even when it cannot be dismissed, he’s still to blame, because “his male power made her do it”.

    To put this in the context of what is both said and unsaid by that ad campaign from last decade:

    “To violence against women, feminism says No! [To violence against men, feminism says who cares?! After all it’s just “men doing it to each other” and in the 5-10 cases worldwide where it’s a woman doing it to a man, she was either defending herself or did something to “have it coming to him” – you go girl!]”

    To decompact this further, according to you clearly feminist perspective on domestic violence (and in a broader context for that matter, abuse) as follows:

    “Women are [exclusively] victims, men are [exclusively] abusers [and any instances to the contrary are to be dismissed as statistical anomalies, lies and arbitrarily trivial and harmless- even when the victim is being attacked with blunt objects, threatened with knives, stabbed or set alight in their sleep].”

    According to that premise, when a man is abused, “he must have done something to provoke it” or “it must have been self-defence”; in other words, “he had it coming to him”.

    Furthermore, it reinforces the stigma that “real men are never victims [especially of women]” and in doing so, that battered men have ‘defiled their
    masculinity’ by ‘allowing themselves to be abused [and by a woman of all people]’. This is the same warped psychopathology which underlies the demonisation of female rape victims.

    If battered women faced a similar deliberate and concerted campaign of bigotry and domestic violence apologetics by the media, law enforcement and governments, people would be marching in the streets over it, and rightly so. Yet, the system and media have repeatedly demonstrated that they believe it is perfectly acceptable to promote the very same sexism and abuse apologetics when the victim is male – based on the stereotypes of every single woman out there being some perpetual harmless damsel in distress and every man out there being some perpetual Superman, incapable of being victimised. Such a premise is so utterly chauvinistic, that it is the close cousin to such
    disgusting tropes as “don’t dress like a slut and you won’t get raped.”

    An appallingly glaring example of this was when Rosie Batty, during her Australian of the Year acceptance speech, challenged Australians to reject sexism regarding domestic violence, and then immediately went on to tell battered men:

    “To men, we need you to challenge each other and become part of the solution.”

    By the nature of that blanket, gendered assertion, battered men and for that matter their children, are considered “part of the problem”. The message which such gendered statements send to battered men and their children is that IT’S THEIR FAULT, that THEY CAUSED IT, that THEY DESERVED IT!

    Would we even tolerate such assertions for one minute if they were directed towards battered women? But of course, to Australian society, that’s “different” isn’t it?

    Furthermore these attitudes cannot even be justified in the context of official figures.

    At the most extreme end of the scale, while it is widely acknowledged that at least 1 battered woman is murdered every 7 days in this country[1], what is
    far less widely known is that the same source also revealed that at least 1 battered man is murdered every 10 days in this country – with over 38% of all domestic homicide victims being male. The numbers of battered men being murdered are hardly insignificant. While I have quoted the 2008-2010 AIC figures, as Miranda Devine reported recently, the figures for 2010-2012 were roughly identical. [2]

    In general terms, the 2010 NSW Auditor General’s report into domestic violence for example, found that in 34% of reported instances of domestic violence, the victim was male, while in 30% of all reported cases, the perpetrators were women[3]. That’s over a third of all victims being male and just under a third of all perpetrators being female.

    These figures are in turn reinforced by the 2012 ABS Personal Safety Survey, which found that a third of all domestic violence victims are male[4] and that 94% of male victims of domestic violence are abused by a female perpetrator.[5]

    Worse still was the fact that it found that battered men were roughly 2-3 times more likely than battered women to have never told anybody about experiencing domestic violence by a partner,[6] twice as likely as battered women to have sought help or advice about experiencing domestic violence by a partner,[7] up to 40% more likely than battered women to have never contacted police about it,[8] and less than half as likely as battered women to have a retraining order issued against their abusers.[9]

    These figures in turn are backed up by international figures, as demonstrated by the Partner Abuse State of Knowledge project (P.A.S.K.). The P.A.S.K. – peer reviewed, published findings of over 100 academics, across 20 universities examining roughly 12,000 existing studies into domestic violence, completely debunks the feminist narrative on domestic violence. In fact it found that while 71.7% of all domestic violence involved a woman being abused by a man, 86.2% of all domestic violence involved a man being abused by a woman, with just under 58% of all domestic violence being bidirectional. It also found that self defense was a minor motive for DV and that both women and men abused for the same reasons – anger, jealousy, etc – in the majority of cases. [10]

    Ergo, despite roughly 2/5 victims of domestic homicide being male, at least a third of all domestic violence victims being male and their perpetrators overwhelmingly being female here in Australia alone, we have a culture where we have encouraged battered men to suffer in shame and silence, and in the tiny number of cases where we do report it- roughly half the rate which women report it- we’re half as likely to be taken seriously by police as battered women.

    Society is justifiably outraged at the plight of battered women, yet were is the same level of concern and outrage for not only battered men, but also their children? Clearly non-existent.

    Of course, it doesn’t stop there, with attitudes towards male rape victims, also largely due to feminism, being even worse.

    According to feminist propaganda “only women are rape victims; only men are
    rapists”. This rape enabling dogma proscribes the stereotype that a penis equates to arbitrary and automatic consent. Furthermore it only fuels the only serves to fuel existing stereotypes that if a man is raped by a man, he’s gay, if he’s raped by a woman, he “got lucky” and if a boy gets raped by a woman, “he’s now a man”.

    In fact it’s worth noting that while the 2010 NIPSVS found that 1.1% of women had been raped in the previous 12 months (1.27 Million women) [11], It also found that 1.1% of men had been raped in the previous 12 months (1.267 Million men) [12] and that just under 80% of those men had been raped by a woman [13].

    Yet the CDC, rather than publicly acknowledge that shocking truth, fraudulently recategorised the data to make it look like only 1 in 71 men were raped and over 95% of all rapes were perpetrated by men.

    Small surprise that this even pervades child abuse. We live in a world where a woman can rape an underage boy, use him to get pregnant, get custody of that child she’s given birth to and sue the child rape victim for child support- this in a society where we demand that underage girls who are raped have the right to an abortion. [14]

    Child trafficking victims fare no better. Society, driven by feminist dogma, frames child sex trafficking as a crime targeting young girls and perpetrated by men, yet the truth is that boys account for roughly half of all child sex trafficking victims, 35% of all traffickers are female and a significant percentage of exploited children are exploited only by female “clients”. [15]

    Furthermore, the organisation Forge Forward cited the Canadian Children’s Rights Council as stating that 86% of all child sexual abuse victims abused by a female perpetrator, aren’t believed when they disclose their abuse. [16]

    Small wonder then that almost 2,000 men a year commit suicide- at 4-5 times the rate of women, or that in 2012, the APS cited stigmatisation and isolation as the key driving factors of male suicide. [17] After all, articles like this are classic examples of said stigmatisation.

    Yet politicians, the media and lobby groups keep treating DV – and all abuse for that matter, including child abuse, as a “women’s issue” and a “men’s problem”, where battered and abused men have nowhere to go, police are more likely to view them as the aggressor or laugh at them than believe them, and society automatically either justifies domestic violence against men with claims like “it must have been self-defense”, or the victim is emasculated for “defiling their masculinity” by “allowing themselves to be abused”.

    The family law courts have been a law unto themselves and incredibly biased against fathers for decades, with even the most baseless accusation of child abuse or domestic violence being treated as gospel and resulting in malignant mothers alienating children from loving fathers with ease. [18] Worse still, much like when women have been found to have maliciously falsely accused a man of raping them, there are rarely any repercussions to women for doing so.

    In fact it is worthy of noting here that the Australian Brotherhood of Fathers have claimed to have evidence to support their assertion that 21 of the 35 men who commit suicide every week in this country, do so due to injustices experienced by the family court system.

    Would we tolerate 12 year old girls who had been raped told “you’re now a woman”?

    Would we tolerate women who had been raped being told they “got lucky” or treated like there’s something wrong with them if they even remotely felt violated by the ordeal?

    Would we tolerate turning little girls who had been raped into financial slaves to rapists, or a society where almost 9 out of 10 child sexual abuse victims raped by a man weren’t believed when they tried to speak up?

    Would we tolerate the entire system treating female victims of violence in general being automatically demonised as the villain or dismissed as “just women doing it to each other”?

    Would we tolerate female victims of domestic violence having nowhere to flee to, having services almost entirely geared to view them solely as perpetrators based on their gender, and society collectively responding to them with “yes women can be abused too, but (you’re virtually non-existent compared to abused men/it’s your fault for allowing yourself to be abused/you probably provoked it/it’s all just women doing it to each other anyway)” or “I’m sorry you were abused too, but (you’re virtually non-existent compared to abused men/it’s your fault for allowing yourself to be abused/you probably provoked it/it’s all just women doing it to each other anyway)”?

    Would we tolerate domestic violence solely being treated as a “men’s issue” and a “woman’s problem”?

    Would we tolerate a family court system which could so easily be manipulated by men making false accusations of abuse as a weapon in a divorce, or using children as a weapon in a divorce that it was practically a trope; where there were allegations that 21 women a week were being driven to suicide over it?

    Never for even a split second.

    Yet tolerating such injustices when the victim is male is such a status quo that not only is it typically dismissed or ignored, but feminists, the very group who are responsible for so much of it, in framing all abuse as “female oppression- the product of male power” get nothing but a free pass to fanatically defend such sexism. Should anyone challenge them, there are an army of white knights ready to defend them to the death like the proverbial damsels in distress which they perceive them as – such as the author of this disgusting and baseless piece of sexist propaganda.

    Is it any wonder that 5 men a day commit suicide in this country – especially when even then, the man is dismissed as “selfish” or “a coward”. Furthermore is it any wonder that the problems that men and boys face go untreated when those of us who are or have been the victims of such trauma, face nothing but
    stigmatisation and isolation from pieces like this.

    [1] http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/mr/21-40/mr21/04_homicide.html Table 10, “Total domestic homicides”.

    [2]http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/miranda-devine-the-brutal-truth-about-domestic-violence/story-fni0cwl5-1227291290250

    [3] http://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/143/Responding_to_Domestic_Family_Violence_Full_Report.pdf.aspx Exhibit 1

    [4] http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4906.02012 Table 3 “Partner”

    [5] http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4906.02012 Table 6 comparison between “Known male partner” and “known female partner”

    [6] http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4906.02012 Table 23

    [7] http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4906.02012 Table 24

    [8] http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4906.02012 Tables 25 & 26

    [9] http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4906.02012 Table 25 & 26

    [10]http://domesticviolenceresearch.org/

    [11] http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf Table 2.1 Page 18

    [12] http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf Table 2.2 Page 19

    [13] http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf Page 24

    [14]http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberthirtysix.htm

    [15]http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/10-surprising-and-counterintuitive-facts-about-child-sex-trafficking

    [16]http://forge-forward.org/wp-content/docs/Female-perpetrators-and-male-victims-why-they-are-invisible_mjw.pdf

    [17]http://www.psychology.org.au/inpsych/2012/august/beaton/

    [18]http://www.smh.com.au/national/false-abuse-claims-are-the-new-court-weapon-retiring-judge-says-20130705-2phao.html

  89. Factory says:

    Oh look. Another example of unbiased journalism, well researched and…..oh, who am I kidding? Is anyone surprised at how twisted, bigoted, and hateful this article is? This crap is par for the course, considering no one pushes the feminist agenda harder than ‘impartial’ journalists.

    Thankfully, journalists have so thoroughly screwed their own reputation that pretty much no one believes a word they say anymore.

  90. gwallan says:

    Richard…Australia has endorsed the International Labor Organisation’s conventions relating to forced labour and, therefore, cannot conscript women for any purpose.

    From Article 11 of the original convention…

    “Only adult able-bodied males who are of an apparent age of not less than 18 and not more than 45 years may be called upon for forced or compulsory labour.”

    There is no barrier to the Australian government re-introducing conscription for men. They could do it tonight if they chose.

  91. pto says:

    Yes, my suspicion was correct, you are a nut. Sorry but there is simply no other way to put this.

    You strike me as someone who’s primary concern isn’t some of the (legitimate) problems men actually do face, but instead just uses those as a stick to (figuratively) beat women with. Someone who’s prime motivation is a fear and hatred of women. I know, you tell yourself that you don’t hate women, just “radical feminists”. But what you see as radical feminists are basically just women who are not content with sitting quietly in the corner and serve the “head of the house”. Just like those Mississippi racists who claimed they only hated those “uppity n****” and not those who quietly worked their fields.

    You’re incapable of seeing that advancement of one group does not mean detriment of the dominant group, and yes, even if you tell yourself that this is not so, men, specifically white males, are still the dominant group in our society.

    What you call “male version of the pussy” is in fact strength. I am confident enough in myself that I don’t feel threatened by feminists and can support them.

    Don’t bore me with examples of feminists who, I don’t know, want to sterilise all men or other outlandish rubbish. In every group there are idiots. Your job is to see what that group actually stands for and not to what the most extreme, idiotic member who claims to represent them says.

  92. ghebert says:

    I never once dismissed the lived experiences of women. Encouraging others to take the compassion and willingness to help others that we show towards women and apply it towards everyone is not dismissing anyone’s experience, it’s equality. I know equality is just something that feminists claim they are all about because it says so in the dictionary but I judge people by their actions, not dictionary definitions. I want men and women to be treated as equals but you seem fine with unequal treatment so long as you’re the one benefiting from it. To use your own words…what a surprise.

  93. guest says:

    Jesus christ this is scary.

    Evil, disturbed and crazy. How does somebody even exist that would be crazy enough to ask this?

    Yes. The violence against you must be your fault because it happened multiple times. Jesus.

  94. pto says:

    Sorry, maybe this was a dumb way to make that statement. I didn’t mean to indicate I blame someone for getting hit. But we have to be able to find reasons for violence happened. There may be no excuse for violence but there is always a reason.

    What I mean is, say I keep walking down Smith St. to work each day. But I’ve been mugged four times while walking down that street. I would think that maybe I should start walking down Jones St. instead because this looks like a safer option. I SHOULD never get mugged, I SHOULD be able to walk down Smith St. safely without having to worry about getting mugged and the only guilty party are the idiots who rob me. I SHOULDN’T have to modify my behaviour. But still, I would wonder if I there isn’t something I can do to minimise that risk too.

    Not sure if this is a good example, but just going by a “some men (or women) are just evil” approach gets us nowhere. We have to be able to look into reasons for why violence happens and what triggers it. This doesn’t mean that the victims are guilty, responsible or in the wrong. But there may be ways you can minimise the risk of you becoming a victim.

  95. Angelo says:

    Thanks for telling me what I think that is almost diametrically opposed to what I said and what I actually think. How clever of you, is that what you call feminist voodoo? Don’t you know that the MRM has revoked your pussy pass? You need the pussy pass for that sort of bullshit to work. :p

    Here is a link made by a comrade to explain to you haw sorry we all are that we have misunderstood the truth about modern feminism.
    http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/i-was-wrong-about-feminism-why-i.html

  96. Jordan Bates says:

    Actually he does. This article is based around the MRM actually dealing with male problems. Without the MRM, it’s probable people like you wouldn’t even know they’re still eligible for the draft. Feminists sure as hell don’t want you knowing it, because then they have to sacrifice something in the name of equality, rather than be given something.

    He’s simply pointing out an issue within the MRM, and there are many. Considering this is an article about how the MRM is dealing with male issues, it’s relevant. Just because you label something as a “troll” doesn’t mean it actually is. Sometimes it’s just you being lazy and looking for an out.

  97. click bait move along

  98. NHLfarmteams says:

    Bravo!

  99. Rudi Van Desarzio says:

    The author, I hope he kills himself.

  100. MsDemeanor says:

    *yawn*

  101. Why don’t you tone down the accusations and insults if you aren’t prepared to back them up.

  102. Matius says:

    “We see it in the minimisation of atrocities perpetrated by men…”

    This article is full of hatred towards men, while trying to appear objective.

  103. Jack V. Butler Jr. says:

    Several of my friends have been talking to me about gender equality and how they think I need to just stop the bullsh*t and admit I’m a feminist because I believe in so many things that are, in their words, “central to the very idea of feminism.”

    They tell me that “Feminism is not the enemy”, and that just because the modern feminist movement is only advocating for half of the human race instead of advocating on behalf of everyone, organized feminism isn’t actually doing any harm. There are, they argue, a lot of true egalitarians who care about men and women equally in the modern feminist movement, after all. And, they tell me, modern feminism is actually advocating for everyone, because when you solve the problems women face, everyone else’s problems will also be solved as a side-effect. There are no rational reasons to oppose feminism, they tell me.

    Sorry, but to me that’s wishful thinking.

    While there are some small areas in which the problems faced by men, just because they are men, and the problems faced by women, just because they are women, overlap, the honest truth is that for the most part men and women face entirely separate issues, and solving the problems faced by women will do precisely nothing to solve the problems faced by men.

    And you’ll excuse me for saying that a political movement founded on and dedicated to the ideal of empowering women isn’t the first group I’d turn to if I wanted to solve the problems faced by men.

    And let’s be clear about something. Those loud, angry women who clearly and proudly hate men and who waste no time belittling, attacking, demeaning, and harming men in the name of feminism ARE feminists. I don’t care how many times you say “Well, they aren’t true feminists” or “Not all feminists are like that.” They’re the most visible members of your movement, feminists. They are the public face of feminism and it is their toxic hate that is driving people away. If you don’t like the fact that people are looking at them and associating the reasonable feminists with the radicals, then maybe you should be more active in, oh, I don’t know, shutting the radicals down.

    To be honest, I don’t think everyone in the modern feminist movement is corrupt or evil or untrustworthy or whatever. But I do think that modern feminism has fallen so far off the beam that it needs a complete and total overhaul if its members continue to say that they are dedicated to gender equality.

    No rational reasons to oppose feminism?

    How about we start with the fact that, as I mentioned three paragraphs earlier, some feminists really do advocate the systematic death (or at the very least, mass castration) of the entire male gender, and the mainstream, moderate, reasonable portions of feminism either make excuses for these women at worse, and simply ignore, tolerate them at best rather than speak out against these bigots?

    How about the fact that the modern feminist movement has a history of marginalizing women of color, transwomen, poor women, and any woman who chooses to be a stay-at-home mom rather than seeking out a career outside the home?

    How about the fact that it has been absolutely proven that feminist academics have purposely distorted data in order to meet the ideological ends of the movement? For example, one feminist sociologist who quoted a study on domestic abuse utterly ignored the studies findings that men were abused just as often by their female partners as the women studied were abused by their male partners. And this was only one person; there have been dozens of similar cases. By ignoring and covering up the truth regarding legitimate research in such a manipulative and cynical fashion, they not only have thrown doubt on the legitimacy of feminism, they’ve also dishonored themselves as scholars and scientists.

    How about the fact that, even worse than the previous reason, on occasion feminist academics have simply fabricated studies whole out of the cloth. The best example is the “Superbowl Rape Day” myth that claimed that more women in rhw US were raped and battered on Superbowl Sunday than on any other day of the year. When the facts of this myth were checked, it turned out that the “study” on which this myth was based was entirely fictional. No such study was ever concluded. In addition, when further investigated, it was found that the source of this myth was actually a feminist group in the Denver area, who apparently just made it up out of thin air.

    How about the fact that feminists have purposefully impeded research studies that showed that feminist ideology had little to no relationship with reality? They did this by harassing researchers, making death threats to both the researchers and their families, organizing protests, lobbying to have research funding cut in areas the feminists did not approve, and otherwise make things difficult for the researchers. Studies into female perpetration of domestic violence and rape are particularly favorite targets for this sort of action.

    How about the fact that, when they tried scaring off and interfering with the researchers mentioned in my last paragraph, and failed to keep the scientists from completing their study, they would then go into action to make sure the results of the study were either drowned out before it could reach mass media attention, or else was outright suppressed by legislation and public censorship?

    How about the fact that feminists continue to spread myths and lies that even they know have been long shown to be false, despite the fact that they know damned well that what they are spreading is bullshit? I’m talking about things like the wage-gap myth, or the “only 2% of rape accusations are false” myth, or the “women only batter men in self-defense” myth, or the “rule of thumb” myth. They know that these things are utterly untrue and have been proven utterly untrue, but they spread these lies intentionally anyway because doing so helps the cause. Even when presented with conclusive evidence that they are promoting bullshit, feminists refuse to back down from it.

    How about the fact that feminists abandon any pretense at fairness or equal treatment when it comes to the rule of law by advocating insane, discriminatory laws and practices that actively benefit women (and women only) and actively harm men (and only men). In the US, for example, they have pushed for laws that utterly remove Constitutional protections and void due process for men accused of rape or domestic violence.

    (Note: not “convicted of rape or domestic violence”, just accused of same.)

    They advocate for laws which not only treat men in a prejudicial and discriminatory fashion, it ignores the fact that men are the majority victims of violent crime.

    How about the fact feminists claim that their movement is both a “woman’s movement” and a “movement for gender equality” without any awareness of the inherent contradiction in those claims?

    How about the fact that feminists claim that their movement is “the only equality movement we need,” but when pressed to address some male-oriented gender issues, refuse to do so because “men should create their own movement to address those problems.” That would be the same movement they previously said was unnecessary because feminism was “the only equality movement we need.”

    How about the fact that, when men do go ahead and create their own movement to “address those problems”, the feminists immediately label such a movement as misogynist, hateful, and harmful to women?

    How about the fact that feminists constantly equate an opposition to feminism with an opposition to women, when the truth is that “feminism” does not equate to “women”? (One is a political movement, one is a human demographic.)

    How about the fact that feminists use obvious fallacy and bad logic to ignore any evidence presented that men are often just as oppressed in our modern society as women are, but in different areas and in different manners?

    How about the fact that, most frequently, the response feminist give to honest criticism isn’t an honest reply, but rather a shaming tactic meant to silence the critic without having to deal with the points they bring up?

    I don’t know… the more I think about it, the less I think feminism is salvageable. It may be time for “rational” feminists to abandon the movement to the fringe wackadoos and start something new that isn’t tainted by the sexist bullshit of the loud-mouth man-haters.

    But I think I’ve shown that there are, in fact, rational reasons to oppose feminism. And opposition to feminism isn’t misogyny. Its just opposition to feminism.

  104. Jack V. Butler Jr. says:

    “A blot on history.”

    So fighting against casual discrimination and sexism is a “blot” now?

  105. Kendall says:

    ” Violence against women is the most common human rights violation in the world.”

    Actually violence against humans is a sadly common (possibly the most common depending on your definition of violence) violation. If we are distinguishing by sex, Violence against men is far more common. Discussing that fact is not an attack on women, only an attack on the agendas of foolish dogmatic opportunists.

  106. Kendall says:

    I had to read this comment twice to confirm my suspicion: you are literally chanting to yourself. Strange behaviour (some what, since every one has a break at some point where they talk out loud or type to themselves), but since you clearly come off as harmless it is fun to read your note-to-self. Please dont let this comment break your trance.

  107. Kendall says:

    Ben, Who is making it a battle of the sexes? Anyone claiming to fight for men’s rights? The term men’s rights? Or is it just random people making bad if not evil choices? You start out talking about some Men’s Rights Movement, then end with a claim somewhat randomly that the goal (of the movement?) is a battle of the sexes. Your article, or more accurately, your narrative by itself does not support the claim, and therefore just reads like it is tacked on to inspire some type of controversy, or included to support an agenda.

    It seems your conclusion is silly at best, if not just childish: the Men’s Rights Movement is stupid, unnecessary, even counter productive. The biggest problem with this conclusion (as with most poor conclusions) isn’t the conclusion itself, but the lazy, insincere, and even boring approach used. This isn’t an article, its a childs journal entry. Simple minds often enjoy simple conclusions, the raw allure of convenience. If more than simple, or simply lazy, Ben you may want to put more effort next time, if this is in fact important to you, E.G. If the Men’s Rights Movement is so destructive and dangerous, you should put a better effort into research, or even just personalizing the story, to give it some level of impact.

  108. Kendall says:

    So you wish he had put more thought into the article, then you are just one of many.

    As far as saying things that should be so obvious, what exactly are you referencing? If His opinions, we can agree, they are bluntly obvious.

  109. Kendall says:

    “The Unstoppable Hubris” – By KellyJelly

  110. MsDemeanor says:

    Men’s rights? Please, no one is taking away anything you haven’t had for the last few millenia. Yes, men should be supported when it comes to violence/sexual assault against them but I’ve yet to see ANY MRA’s actually going in to bat for those issues. It’s always about their entitlement and privilige being threatened by women who call them on it. Your gender is still running most of the world yet act like there is some vast Illuminati feminist conspiracy against them.

  111. Paul Mitchell says:

    I think he put a lot of thought in. And, yes, his opinions are what I agree with. The fact that his opinions aren’t those of many men in the community is what is disturbing. What I was hoping for from the article, as a result of its title, was some information about or a critique of the men’s rights movement. I’ll just look elsewhere.

  112. Samanjj says:

    mate – it doesn’t matter. i can be a verbal arsehole to you. you have no right to touch me.

  113. pto says:

    You don’t get where I’m coming from, which is probably my fault because the original post was badly expressed. I don’t mean to imply any guilt whatsoever. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t something the victim can do to minimise the risk of being a victim. If I get run over four times by a drunk driver running a red light, the arsehole is the drunk driver. It is not my fault, I’ve crossed the street on a green light, but maybe if I had looked left and right before crossing I could have avoided being run over?
    What I’m trying to say, perhaps badly, just because you can do something to prevent being a victim doesn’t imply that you share any guilt and top priority is that we must do everything we can to stop drunk drivers. I SHOULD be able to cross the street in safety. But I would be dumb if I also didn’t learn anything from this and try to minimise the risk myself.

  114. Samanjj says:

    There is a fine line there and I rather people feel relaxed to express themselves like arse holes than step on egg shells all their life in fear of being punched.

  115. Kendall says:

    I should clarify, thought seems to lack measurement here. Maybe I should have said research effort.

    As far as opinions, what exactly are you referencing, what contested opinions do you find so disturbing?

  116. Paul Mitchell says:

    Kendall, why don’t you just make the point that you’re so desperate to make and be done with it?

  117. Kendall says:

    The only point I had was covered, the article is lacking, and I still have no idea what you were trying to convey, which is why I asked you to explain. For some reason you avoiding providing an actual response but still take the time to respond. Its very strange.

  118. Paul Mitchell says:

    I was trying to convey, clearly unsuccessfully, that I agreed with Ben’s opinions, the bulk of which should be self-evident in a civilised society (but unfortunately are not) and that the title was a distortion of the article because the article didn’t discuss what the Men’s Rights movement is about (which I was interested to find out about). Sorry if this wasn’t clear to you, and meant you needed to keep asking questions.

  119. Kendall says:

    “Women are also confronted by violence at different stages in their life from sex selective abortion, FGM, domestic violence and widow abuse.”

    Regarding abortion, are you talking about the pregnant woman, or the fetus? If the fetus, are we to assume you hold a pro-life (anti pro choice) perspective?

    Regarding widow abuse, to what exactly are you referring? or is that just a term you created. Is it something that only happens in countries that do also host massacres and war crimes, even attempted genocides?

    Why is the sex of the perpetrator important? Does it make a murder victim any less of a victim? Does it make the crime more or less horrific?

    Where did you pull the 80% figure for DV Homicide? The stats are 1 out of 3 are male victims, not 1 out of 5. (Office for Prevention of DV)

    The worst part is claiming one set of violence is more insidious (as mentioned in the other comment you ignored). That was the most backwards, conservative claim . Murder is murder, the victim is dead. The issue seems to be violence against women is insidious, since women should be sheltered from it, men either deserve it, or should be able to deal with it. Special protections do not demonstrate equality (or equal treatment), women are not adult children.

    “Feminists” who claim they seek equality, but push only for the protection of women (especially in areas like murder and violence) only see a separate place for men and women in society, not a shared space, a gender blind community, but maybe that is just not the goal for many “Feminists”.

  120. LF says:

    It is not BS. Ready the study. You are focused on one tree and are missing the forest. Let me explain, woman is beating man. Man gets pushed to the point of no return and beats back. He hits much harder and woman dies. Who started the war? Who hit first?

  121. LF says:

    Absolutely. For example, the last situation I told my live-in that we were not compatible and I believe we should move on from one another. But hey, in this day, it is always the man’s fault so blame away. Heck, why ruin a good story with the truth.

  122. pto says:

    Rubbish, it’s not always the man’s fault and this is not what I mean at all. What I mean is, if this keeps happening to you over and over again, there are three options. Either this is the same as happens to everyone, which is not likely at all. Or you’re spectacularly unlucky, which is possible. Or there are things that you do that push assholes over the edge. E.g. not so much what you say but how you say it. That doesn’t mean that I blame you for it, but it also doesn’t mean that you couldn’t do things to minimise the chance of this happening to you.

    Like I mentioned elsewhere, if I keep getting hit by drunk drivers when crossing the road, maybe it’s time I look out properly. The person at fault is the drunk driver, not me, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t help prevent it happening. In a perfect world there wouldn’t be drunk drivers, in our world there are.

  123. Jacob Chacko says:

    Interesting. Just the first couple sentences… You could substitute the words “men’s rights” with “internet feminism” and “men” with “women” and it all sounds just as valid.

    No, I don’t support the current MRA organizations but mostly because if I’m going to do something to fix traditionalist problems, I’m not going to write opinion pieces about it. I want to run charities for prostrate cancer screenings for the poor, creating community opportunities to embrace our black brothers and to help resist the systematic profiling/targeting of them for “criminal justice”, raising money to fund scientific research into suicide, and most importantly not using it as a platform to just spit vitriol considering the seriousness of the problems.

  124. LF says:

    Don’t feminists call that argument victim blaming? Haha, I forgot, feminism lives in double standards…

  125. TeamEdwardJace says:

    Yes a female mra who hates all single mothers isn’t sexist at all .

  126. TeamEdwardJace says:

    As another article states ( I’m paraphrasing it , some of the legimate goals become lost in the framework of grossly destructive ways of trying to attaining or other ideals that are sexist towards all gender indenties ( including men) racist or homophobic , the mras ( including female ones)seem to have a disdain for all single mothers which is sexism. Also the legit issues are already being advocated for by ppl who aren’t mras ( including men. Those advocate are the ones who really strive to help men among others.) I’m sorry so called feminists don’t care but they aren’t true feminists . And yes I’m aware of the true Scotsman fallacy but it doesn’t apply .

  127. TeamEdwardJace says:

    And there’s some of their racist campaign . Also before you write me off as a manhater, see my above reply to Charlie Hurd. Mras can shove it

  128. TeamEdwardJace says:

    Dude we try but maybe certain ppl aren’t listening and those ppl are uneducated and are crazy

  129. Charlie Hurd says:

    Great response. Hope you saved it for later use with another cow crap article like this one.

  130. Owen says:

    You obviously haven’t been listening to the same MRAs that i have been.