Culture

Karl Stefanovic Has Worn the Same Suit Every Day for a Year Because Sexism

This is what a feminist looks like.

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Karl Stefanovic is a lot of things. He’s a manchild with an acute sensitivity to sexual puns. He’s one of the few people in the world to tell the Dalai Lama a joke. He’s a true blue hero who doesn’t mind going on air after a few bevvies, a totally hilarious prankster, and one of the nation’s few professional cat journalists. But now we can add one more line to his already stellar CV — Karl Stefanovic is a feminist.

Seriously.

According to a report from The AgeKarl has spent the last 12 months of his life dedicated to a super secret mission to expose sexism in Australian society. Again — this is not a joke. After becoming frustrated with the superficial standards his female co-workers were held to in regards to the way they dress, Karl embarked on an experiment to test these standards on himself. He wore the same blue suit every day. First for a week, then for a month, then for a year.

A FUCKING YEAR.

“Women are judged much more harshly and keenly for what they do, what they say and what they wear,” Stefanovic told Fairfax. “I’ve worn the same suit on air for a year — except for a couple of times because of circumstance — to make a point [and] no one has noticed; no one gives a shit.”

The only people who knew about the experiment aside from Stefanovic were his co-host Lisa Wilkinson and Sunrise host Samantha Armytage — the women who seemed to inspire Karl to take up the cause. Both Wilkinson and Armytage have been the target of unfair criticism about their appearance in recent times. The latter even suffered a rough onslaught of bullshit from The Daily Telegraph for dressing in seemingly regular clothes while doing normal, everyday activities.

armytage

This just in: woman wears jeans and a jumper. #comfywomfygate

“I’m judged on my interviews, my appalling sense of humour — on how I do my job, basically,” said Stefanovic. “Whereas women are quite often judged on what they’re wearing or how their hair is … that’s [what I wanted to test].”

Now, it seems the test was well worth his time. Though men’s suits are admittedly more difficult to tell apart than the varied cuts and styles of women’s usual dress, he’s got a point. The fact no one noticed proves that no one really cares. And, while that’s totally fine — there’s no real reason we should care what the host of a daily news-peppered infomercial chooses to put on his body — that standard should be applied across the board.

And, though every sane person in the world knows this, it’s exciting to see the point coming from such a prominent figure in the mainstream media. As Clementine Ford said this week following the movements against the socially exiled Redfoo, and the actually exiled Julien Blanc, it seems more and more people are confidently speaking out against this kind of injustice.

Maybe all of Karl’s pranks have been insightful comments on contemporary Australia? Have we been missing something? Someone please decipher his point in the video below. Please. Someone. Give meaning to the world again.

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Comments

Comments

  1. Samanjj says:

    Wow I had no idea that’s what he was doing! Well done champ!

  2. 3 Cool Worlds says:

    In the past I’ve thought of Karl as a bit of a dork and not much more, but this is really very cool. Good job, Karl.

  3. iron_dinges says:

    He makes a good point, but it should be noted that it’s generally *women* criticizing other women for their dress.

    More attention should be drawn to the fact that it’s often women – consciously or not – that reinforce gender tropes.

  4. Jason Hansen says:

    in all seriousness guys really don’t care what females wear. It’s normally female targeted magazines/columns that like to judge people on how they look.

  5. Erin Gibbins says:

    i like your article, i also want to decipher the last point if you were indeed asking. Karl changed her auto-cue so she would be asking “how good are the cookies there” as a rhetorical question in reference to marijuana cookies. he is laughing at his ability to pull a prank that went immediately unnoticed by the newsreader.

  6. Ranger of Oz says:

    As for the video, maybe he was pointing out the dangers of doing without questioning in a humorous fashion? *shrugs* As for the actual article… that’s a lot of work but well worth it to prove a point.

  7. David Curry says:

    Mainstream and social media and conservatives were taken aback when president Obama wore *gasp* a TAN suit at a press conference

  8. Matthew Long says:

    What difference does it make? Sexism is a societal issue and feminism isn’t women vs men.

  9. olafauer says:

    Oh, isn’t he precious! Who gives a flying fuck what this girlie man does? He should mind his own fucking business!

  10. xuinkrbin says:

    Or maybe Nobody cares about Karl in general?

  11. Alias McCoy says:

    All the difference in the world. Like you wouldn’t run an article with the absurd notion that we need to teach young men not to rape.

    Feminism is women versus men. Originally it expected equality, but the people who would deign to call themselves “feminists” at this stage in the game have a very different agenda, and that is to assert their power and take their “rightful” place as the dominant sex that abuses men and wields privilege unfairly.

    We do not need one set of chauvinists to replace another. Women, societally, are a huge sexist force and must be taught to believe in secular humanist equality. We may not all be equal in terms of our abilities and appearance, but we should all have the same chances and forgiveness in an ideal society.

  12. Ted Hurtz says:

    Wow! People sure are working hard to get offended about something. you could look at this in the complete opposite way. maybe the headline should read “Study proves that Men aren’t as interesting and don’t get the same amount of attention as women”

  13. Alias McCoy says:

    Of course they do. There is nothing more important than a woman’s appearance, and every woman knows that. The sad fact is that this standard is now bilaterally applied to men as well as women. Rather than accept people for who they are we now determine more of most people’s worth by aesthetic, and judge them “appropriately”.

  14. Ted Hurtz says:

    Well Said!

  15. Saurabh Rao says:

    Most guys care how a woman looks, but they don’t bother remembering what a woman wore a day before, or a week before, or whatever. Who cares. It looks good on you? Wear it often!

  16. Alias McCoy says:

    This is the most vapid and pointless exercise I could imagine associating with a prospective iconoclast. Men are expected to wear the same perfectly tailored suit in their regular appearance on television media, such as news anchors and late night talk show hosts. He is conflating different things; did he wear slacks and an oxford button down for a year? Was he photographed outside wearing only t-shirt and shorts?

    Of course no one would say anything. He did what’s expected of him.

  17. aboedo29 says:

    Effects of Feminism On Men: https://vimeo.com/107815754

  18. aboedo29 says:

    it’s tough being a man: https://vimeo.com/108818646

  19. aboedo29 says:

    Women are too dumb to debate men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGwfodPZkI

  20. aboedo29 says:

    we all know the truth:

  21. aboedo29 says:

    RAGEQUIT in record time by a feminist COWARD! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnfF3clLuC0

  22. aboedo29 says:

    ….RAGEQUIT in record time by a feminist COWARD! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnfF3clLuC0

  23. Anne Trotter says:

    Feminism isn’t women versus men. It’s people versus the rules that say women are less than men. Women are completely capable of being misogynists and disliking other women; women are completely capable of internalizing those biased rules. Men are completely capable of thinking those rules are wrong.

  24. Anne Trotter says:

    Do men lie about rape?

  25. Anne Trotter says:

    Then why was the only person to ever tell me I was dressed wrong for the workplace a man? I was wearing appropriate clothing for my job, which included crawling around on the floor under desks and lifting heavy stuff. He said I was unfeminine and he’d never let his daughters out dressed the way I was.

    Men are jsut as capable of judging clothing based on social standards as women are.

  26. Anne Trotter says:

    …You do realize you’re judging these women based on their appearance, thus validating the entire argument being made here?

  27. Chris Bartlett says:

    You are talking absolute nonsense. Feminism is not about men vs women, its about men and women in favour of equal rights for men and women vs men and women who believe men should get preferential treatment. Such ignorant rubbish would be hilarious if it wasn’t so dangerous.

  28. Anne Trotter says:

    …Do you actually expect anyone to click on this video and waste their time?

  29. Anne Trotter says:

    I see jagged red lettering indicating anger, a black background indicating aggression, loads of word salad on the bottom – you know that those artistic choices aren’t noted for being used by stable, happy, well adjusted people, right?

  30. Matthew Long says:

    Hyperbole.

    Feminism is not women vs men. Some people, like you, appear to take the challenge to the status quo combined with the incredibly small minority of “feminist extremists” or “neo-feminists” as threatening to your way of life.

    Equality is better for everyone.

    If women specifically judge other women based on appearance, it is due to societal factors; societal factors that cause women to value appearance and value other women based on appearance.

    Women are taught from the start that how they look matters more than their life accomplishments, their intelligence, etc. by the media and large portions of society. Do you simply think women are more judgmental in this sense because they were born that way?

    Why wouldn’t “you” run an article with the “absurd” notion that we need to teach young men not to rape? How can you twist anti-rape education to be anti-male?

    The vast majority of feminists believe in secular humanist equality. You are using slippery-slope logic just like when leftists say right-wing politics lead to hitler and rightists say left-wing politics lead to stalin.

    Perhaps you are confusing feminism and feminists with neo-feminism etc. and should go learn the terminology better. Your accusations are not representative of modern western feminism.

  31. Tracy Robinson says:

    You are very confused about feminism (although trolls and media have made it a bad word). Feminism is not about women vs men. It’s about leveling the playing field for men and women.

    Feminism had rape redefined because the law previously did not recognize women as rapists. Feminism wants paid Paternity leave and improved paternity policies because businesses do not recognize men as caregivers for their children.

    There are women equivalents to Red Pill Men and they are a vocal lot but those women are not feminists.

    Feminism is a good thing and so far it has benefited cis men and women everywhere. Happy women who have control over their bodies, who can keep thier paychecks after they’re married, who can vote, who can own property… these women please men much better than the ones who were just property (ie: like 50 years ago)

  32. Jennifer Landers says:

    One point you said I want to comment on: 95% of rape prevention should be educating men that rape is wrong, unacceptable and not to be tolerated in our (or any society). I’ve heard the argument that women need to be the hyper vigilant ones because “If I parked my car in the ghetto and it was stolen, it would be my fault”, implying that a woman’s dress or behavior puts her in an “green-light” category to be raped. Some key differences here: one…shes not a fucking car, a car is an object. two….its ALWAYS the rapist’s fault. ALWAYS. (And yes, I’m well aware that women will cry rape but that’s actually rare….its much more likely to not be reported at all for fear of not being believed or victimized twice since our legal system is unlikely to actually get a conviction for these monsters)

  33. Jennifer Landers says:

    I’m sorry you’re so obsessed with your own dick that you’re afraid equal rights might invalidate it or force you to pee sitting down.

    Honestly, I hope your just a troll because if not, someone has seriously warped your sense of reality. Best of luck to you (maybe some therapy will help)

  34. aboedo29 says:

    sorry you’re so fat and dumb and ugly you got embarrassed lolol! we know you got raped by your daddy that’s why you hate men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGwfodPZkI

  35. aboedo29 says:

    awwww… you’re butthurt because your single digit IQ is being taxed? LOL! sorry you’re so fat and dumb and ugly you got embarrassed lolol! we know you got raped by your daddy that’s why you hate men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGwfodPZkI

  36. aboedo29 says:

    Are you still molesting young children? sorry you’re so fat and dumb and ugly you got embarrassed lolol! we know you got raped by your daddy that’s why you hate men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGwfodPZkI

  37. aboedo29 says:

    How often do you molest young children? sorry you’re so fat and dumb and ugly you got embarrassed lolol! we know you got raped by your daddy that’s why you hate men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGwfodPZkI

  38. Frodo says:

    O Boy! The Horror! Women criticizing other women for what they wear! Cattyness!!! The WORLD IS GOING TO COME TO AN END! I think im going to pass out from the Oppression! The Oppression! Some Thing Has To Be Done! World Wide! Call The UN !!!! Every Military Alliance In The World must be alerted to this! Immediately! Call out The US Marines !The Israeli IDF! Maby just Maby the Chineses Peoples Army would have enough personnel to Do Something about This! And/Or The Russian Spetznaz! Anyone have Ban Ki-moon’s Phone number??
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodby

    Karl nobody cares what you wear.Let me know when you figure out why.

  39. aboedo29 says:

    Do you lie when you molest young kids? sorry you’re so fat and dumb and ugly you got embarrassed lolol! we know you got raped by your daddy that’s why you hate men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGwfodPZkI

  40. 4Commencefiring4 says:

    Feminism, at its root, promotes the notion that women and men are the same. (Ask any married person if that’s true or not). Just because there are statistics that there’s a pay disparity doesn’t mean that women are getting the short end of the stick, or that there are not proper rationales for doing for one something that should not be done for the other. Overlaying an “equal treatment” mantra on eveything sometimes gets us into trouble, and puts women–and men–in danger.

    “All other things being equal”, yes–we should treat the two sexes the same. But in so many ways, all other things are NOT equal, should not be equal, and never will be equal. When I see a woman changing a tire on a busy road as a man stands beside her huddling in the cold, THEN I’ll say equality has finally come.

  41. AoverK says:

    So men and women are both sexist against each other in different ways big surprise.

    When it comes to evolutionary biology women are judged for their appearance because it indicates fertility and ability to reproduce quality offspring and men are judged for their ability to provide for their mate and progeny. This is how human beings and other animals have survived and flourished for eons. Mother nature…the most sexist woman ever. I guess we should all be blaming the Matriarchy or science.

  42. Senna Lanna says:

    Men pick mates based on attractiveness. Ladies pick mates based on how useful they are. It’s just kinda how it’s always been.

  43. Leporidae says:

    Thats not cool.
    Even if it is a joke.
    Not cool.
    Grow up

  44. Tom LeJeune says:

    Would you define NOW as feminist extremists? In the past few years NOW as fought against alimony reform, default shared custody and child support limits. Can you honestly say they fought these for gender equality? When the world’s largest feminist organization is fighting to uphold sexist double standards, it’s not really a stretch to say feminists don’t care about equality. Also the whole “teach men not to rape” is pretty sexist. It would be equivalent to teaching all girls not to be gold diggers. Not only does this idea assume that all boys are rapist by default, it does nothing to prevent rape. Rapist know rape is bad. Just like murders and thieves know they’re actions are wrong. The problem isn’t a lack of communication. The problem is some people don’t have empathy.

  45. kmacca says:

    and why? because women have been told – by men – that looks are everything. In places where female genital mutilation occurs, it is most often performed by women who are all too aware of how much it hurts. So why? Because they are aware their daughters will be considered “dirty” and “unmarriable” by men. As – again, men – in these areas don’t allow women to hold their own property, this puts unmarried women in an incredibly precarious position.
    So yes. Sometimes it is women performing problematic acts upon other women, and those women should be called out…but no one should believe for a second that those women’s original comments weren’t influenced by a misogynistic upbringing.

  46. Xenopsyche says:

    God damn this motherfucking bullshit. The world has gone mad.

  47. Neville Greenwood 'Web Wizards says:

    That’s why I switched to 7 morning. He doesn’t care enough to change his suit every now and again. Stop using sexism as an excuse not to change your suit. Kochie, now there is a real fashion role model!!!

  48. Jens says:

    #NotAllWomen are sexist, but all women are subject to sexist women.

  49. Guest says:

    Oh darlin’ its ok……I understand you have to be true to yourself

  50. Guest says:

    I get the lashing out…..you just gotta be real to yourself

  51. Guest says:

    I understand sweetie…..you just gotta be true to yourself

    http://rs1img.memecdn.com/damn-it-feels-good-to-be-gangster_o_1943439.jpg

  52. Jennifer Landers says:

    Oh no! Someone on the internets attacked my looks in order to invalidate my comments on a post about the standards society imposes on female appearance!!!! How could anonymous users be so cruel? Surely, this attack on my vanity will be my undoing!!

  53. Rene Macarthur says:

    Feminism is supposed to be about men and women equality, its about removing sexism. You cannot say that its sexism when a man judges another man or a woman judges another woman.

    I think what Iron_dinges was trying to say is that this is not a matter of sexism, of men judging these women, but its women trying to belittle these other women as to make themselves seem more desirable. I think this is more a case of bullying rather then sexism.

  54. nic says:

    Its women criticizing women… they are there own worst enemy

  55. Paul Whitford says:

    for as long as the human race need crappy morning television to entertain them and inform them on all aspects of their poor miserable lives and as long as people feel the need to worry about what the presenters are [or are not] wearing, then we will have poorly educated morons, dependant on others to give them a biased opinion on clothes, educate them on one sided politics, societies entertainers, what gadgets to buy and anything else designed to hold their poor, 2 hour long, attention spans.

  56. Andrea says:

    He’s talking about weed in the video. They sell edibles in Dutch “coffee” shops.

  57. aboedo29 says:

    hey ugly dumb kunt you sound mad hahahahah!

  58. aboedo29 says:

    for your butthurt

  59. aboedo29 says:

    you STILL mad ugly kunt? LOLOL!

  60. aboedo29 says:

    awwww u STILL MAD UGLY KUNT? LOLOL!

  61. aboedo29 says:

    cry harder dumb f aaagggot lol!

  62. Matthew Long says:

    Not true. A woman is just as capable of perpetrating sexism against another women, I am not sure what makes you believe this is not the case. If a woman devalues another woman because of her sex it is sexism.

  63. Matthew Long says:

    “there is one group that self-identifies as feminist and I don’t like what they do, therefore feminism isn’t about equality and is bad”

    The KKK claims to run it’s organization based on peace etc. does this mean we can’t use the word “peace” to describe positive action anymore?

    You are looking at this in black and white; society, social action, and the world as a whole do not work this way.

  64. Tom LeJeune says:

    I would say your comparing oranges to apples, but they’re both fruit. So you can compare them. What you’re doing is more like comparing an apple to a monkey. NOW is the largest and most funded feminist organization. Therefore NOW’s actions are representative of all feminists. The KKK on the other hand is not the largest and most funded peace organization. If fact no one thinks of the Klan when they think of a peace organizations. On another note I never said feminism was bad. What I said is feminists don’t actually believe in equality. Which pretty much none of you do. Has any feminist organization ever fought against a policy that benefits women?

  65. Matthew Long says:

    I am a feminist and I believe in equality. The DEFINITION of feminism is social equality for women. My significant other, and any of my friends who call themselves feminist believe in equality. None of us believe women are somehow better or should be given special treatment OTHER THAN as a temporary measure to counteract the patriarchy we live in. We would hope any of these measures would disappear when the patriarchy disappears.

    A lot of rapists don’t understand why what they are doing is wrong. Society enables rape. It is not sexist to create programs geared towards men to educate about rape. Saying it’s negative to teach men (who are the majority perpetrators of rape) not to rape is like saying it’s negative to teach straight people to be tolerant of homosexuals. I agree, the overall goal needs to be to teach EVERYONE not to rape, but just because it doesn’t cover all the bases right of the bat as “the ultimate solution” doesn’t mean it’s bad and won’t be a force for positivity.

    If we all stood around waiting for “the ultimate solution” that was all-encompassing and all-inclusive nothing would ever get done. You are continuing to think in black-and-white terms, which from my perspective is outside of the scope of reality.

  66. Tom LeJeune says:

    You contradict yourself with this sentence. “None of us believe women are somehow better or should be given special treatment OTHER THAN as a temporary measure to counteract the patriarchy we live in. We would hope any of these measures would disappear when the patriarchy disappears.” So you don’t believe women should get special treatment EXCEPT for “temporary” measures to counter act the patriarchy until it disappears. Who’s deciding what policies are caused by this so called patriarchy we live in and who’s gonna decide when it dies? My guess is the people who are benefiting the most from these sexist policies. Also, the imprisonment of innocent Asians during WWII was first only a temporary measure, does that make it any less unjust? Discrimination is discrimination. The amount of time it goes on shouldn’t matter.

    Society enables rape? Really? If that were true why would we bother locking convicted rapists up? Why is rape seen by most people in this country as a crime on the same level as murder. Why are rapists in jail treated just slightly better than child molesters? Typically society doesn’t punish people for actions we encourage. Society doesn’t encourage rape, you’re just angry that the criminal Justice system requires proof beyond reasonable doubt. Also rapist don’t know rape is bad? Where did you get that from? Seriously, how many men in prison got there because they didn’t know holding a woman down and forcing themselves inside a woman was wrong. No, pretty much every boy has it pounded in their head from a very early age that you don’t hurt girls. Some choose to ignore that, but most of us follow that even when we’re at risk of injury. And teaching boys not to rape isn’t like teaching people to be tolerant of homosexuals. Its more like teaching black kids not to steal. Its an assumption that you might commit a crime based on what you look like.

    I speak in black and white terms because that is what equality is. Either we’re all treated the same or we’re not. There is no middle ground on that. Either you believe women should be treated the same as men, or you believe that women are different and need to be treated different. Me personally, I believe that everyone should be treated the same regardless of genetics because that is the only true way to achieve equality.

    Also can you explain how the largest feminist organization NOW doesn’t represent feminists? I forgot to ask that in my last comment

  67. Matthew Long says:

    Just so we’re clear: you are comparing rape education for young men to the US locking up asians in WW2. This is just slipper-slope logic. Just because I believe in minor pro-woman action doesn’t mean I want laws enacted to make men subservient.

    Yes, society enables rape. Law DOES NOT equal society, there’s that black-and-white thinking again.

    “Typically, society doesn’t punish people for actions we encourage.” First, the use of the word “typically” lends to the idea that this is not always the case. Second, I can think of many ways society punishes women for actions that women are encouraged to perform. For example, the media and a large portion of society encourages the over-sexualization of women, yet women who are overly sexual are demonized by another large portion of society that calls them sluts and whores. In Toronto for example, it is lawful for a woman to walk the streets with her shirt of in the same way a man legally could. Do you really believe the reaction to a woman doing this would be 100% positive and that she wouldn’t be sexualized, cat-called, etc.? If she wasn’t society’s standard of beauty she’s probably be called ugly and told to cover up too, something we probably wouldn’t say about a man in a similar situation.

    A lot of rape has nothing to do with “holding a woman down”, fighting a woman, or even continuing as the woman tells you “no”. A lot of rape (most of it) is perpetrated by husbands and boyfriends. In many cases, it is perpetrated against women who may be unconscious or too inebriated to understand what is going on. In a recent case in the US, a highschooler and their friends actually recorded and shared a video of him raping a girl at a party who passed out. Do you believe this behavior shows they understand the implications of their actions and understand that what they are doing is a.)rape and b.)wrong? After this case, the media was outraged not only because the woman was raped, but because the young man “had his whole life ahead of him, and his whole football career” etc. There was public outrage AGAINST the rape survivor because if “she wasn’t such a slut” he wouldn’t be in trouble and have his football career ruined. Much of the time, men feel they are entitled to sex just because they are in a relationship for example; they will “take” it if they want it and many young women are taught things along the lines of “women don’t really like sex but men love it, sometimes you just have to put up with it”.

    You also have to realize when we talk about educating young boys about rape, we’re not talking about rounding up all the boys in classrooms and kicking the girls out so the boys are exclusively targeted. There are general media campaigns that are targeted to appear the boys and men especially, but I am not sure what you’re going on about and how you’re turning this into the same idea as racism or other discrimination.

    I don’t know anything about NOW other than they have 500,000 members. It’s a fair size but you can’t claim it dictates or defines feminism. 1/5th of US citizens identify as feminist (which is 70 million, or 140 times the membership of NOW) and 82% say they believe in equality for men and women (which by definition, makes them feminists, they simply aren’t self-identifying).

    EQUALITY is “we’re all treated the same”. REALITY is not EQUALITY, and it’s unlikely TRUE EQUALITY will ever exist– though perhaps we can get very very close. For this reason, your black-and-white thinking is counterproductive. You are fighting against the cause that will bring society as close as possible to your ideal because it does not satisfy every requirement of your ideal from the beginning. In reality, NOTHING can satisfy every requirement of your ideal from the beginning, so I’d be interested in understanding where you plan to start…

    Here are some sources for you:

    Steubenville High School rape case (most important for you to read, and perhaps spend time finding other COMMON examples):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_case

    HERE is a VERY good writeup that should help explain things to you about rape culture: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/toula-foscolos/rape-culture-exist_b_4913727.html

    http://now.org/faq/how-many-members-does-now-currently-have/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminism?s=t

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

  68. Uma says:

    well done Karl and the today show. i love listening to Lisa, She is a gem. But, on the same day right after talking about this important issue, Richard came along and spoke about some one hair style and I think Sam worthington, etc now if you are going to make a stand on these things, you should go all the way, dont promote segments where it is nothing but talking crap about someones looks, Maybe Lisa and Karl may not have a massive say in this, but would like to know what they think about it

  69. Tom LeJeune says:

    At no point did I equat asian concentration camps to rape. I didnt even mention them in the same paragraph. What I said was enacting temporary discriminatory polices is wrong.

    You’re confusing punishment with with social stigma. Yes, the media encourages women to look sexy. And yes, some people are threatened by that and call those women sluts. But we don’t lock up women for looking sexy. Being called a name is not a punishment, its just rude.

    As for the whole “society encourages rape because these boys filmed themselves commuting rape and this writer spoke about a rapist in a positive light” argument. Let me apply that logic to something else. Remember the Duke Lacrosse Team? When those boys were first accused everyone assumed they were guilty right off the bat. And even when they were found to be innocent the media still criticized the boys worse than the woman who made the false claim. Or that singer Conor Oberst. Conor lost a 250,000 contract because of his false rape accusations. When the accuser admitted it was a lie and conor threatened to sue for libel, the media made him the villain and her the victim. The media regularly blames men who were falsely accused. Do these examples prove that society encourages women to make false accusations? Personally I don’t think that is the case, but I can argue it using your logic. Also just because some filmed themselves breaking the law doesn’t mean they had a lack of understanding of that law. It just means they’re stupid and or cocky.

    And you’re right, reality isn’t equal. But discriminating against one group in order to compensate the other isn’t a step towards equality. Its just replacing perceived discrimination with actual discrimination. Demanding seat limits in politics and business that make it so women can hold 100% of the positions but men can only hold 70% is a discriminatory practice. Demanding tax payers pay for girls only tech programs because there’s not enough women programmers is a discriminatory practices. Demanding employers pay female employees more than males to compensate for hours they don’t work is a discriminatory practices. And no I’m not talking about maternity leave. I’m talking about the recent law in Australia that straight up requires employers to pay women more. You can call my way of thinking counter productive. But whats really counter productive is commodizing people for their identity and not their ability. A company shouldnt have to consider gender ratios when promoting and people should have they’re political choices limited by gender.

    And finally for the NOW doesn’t represent feminist argument. If the worlds largest feminist organization doesn’t represent feminists , then who represents feminists? It seems like any time a feminist organization does something, everyone else can just claim “those aren’t real feminists, feminist want equality”. So let me ask you. Where are all these REAL feminists fighting for equality? I’ve never seen a protest to end lifetime alimony. I’ve seen like a dozen articles on the sexism in classic video games but I’ve never seen anyone call lifetime alimony a sexist concept that reenforces the idea that women are incapable of surviving with out a mans assistance. All I’m saying is your not really fighting for equality if you only protest things that negatively affect women and ignore the things that benefit them.

  70. Erin Gibbins says:

    what has that got to do with what i wrote??? how in your head did you think this was a reply to my comment? if you have something unrelated to say, please post a new comment and not an unrelated reply to someone else’s comment

  71. Optional says:

    Maybe your boss just happened to be a man at the time you needed to be told? Would your reaction have been any different if it had been a woman anyway? Obviously you had decided your own opinion of dress standard was more important than your employers. Crying foul sexism at this form of ‘judgement’ is exactly what turns some people away from ‘feminism’.

  72. Anthony DeWayne Mack says:

    Your reply sounded like a logical argument, if by “logical argument,” I meant “complete and utter tripe.”

  73. Anthony DeWayne Mack says:

    You should look into chemical castration. For the benefit of all mankind.

  74. Ice Giant says:

    Thanks for proving your point — with yet another gender stereotype. Because looking for sexy women is definitely a heterosexual female thing, right? (referring to the magazine saying “is bringing sexy back a lost cause?”

    Prove the paparazzi is a female, and you may have a point. Otherwise, get an education on what feminism is. It’s not against men, you just get butthurt because indeed, men should learn not to justify rape based on how someone is dressed.

    Thank you. Carry on.

  75. Ice Giant says:

    WHOA you mean it’s possible for people to lie????

    I wonder if men ALSO lie about NOT having raped someone… WHOOAAAAAAAAAAA people lie??? Totally relevant to the discussion. Lol go suck a dick, please.

  76. Ice Giant says:

    Wow, so you’re now LAUGHING at the imagined idea that someone hates a group of people because they were molested by their own fathers? HAH! So you just proved triple points; 1 a lot of fathers are child molesters, 2. you’re a sadistic little bitch for finding it amusing and indulging in the idea. 3. Men are ruining the world by molesting children and creating SO many fucking feminists … in college!

    Yeah, you’re not very smart, bro. But you may have a future in sucking dick in the porn industry. :D

  77. Ice Giant says:

    Yes, women’s magazine focusing on how to *improve* their looks… so they’re not judged.

  78. Ice Giant says:

    People turn away from feminism??? ROFL. You’re right. Karl Stefanovic turned away from feminism and look how rich, handsome and famous he is!

    You’re literally neglecting his point just to justify your hatred or lack of interest in a topic — that is growing and manipulating the future.

    Edit: No boss should judge a person (who is wearing the right clothing for the job) based on their gender. And since you’re trying to prove only women judge, the boss man should know better. Simple as that.

  79. Ice Giant says:

    LOL You expect him to be intelligent like that?

  80. Ice Giant says:

    I agree. More men need some loving in this world, come here Aboedoe29, you’re just the man to give my dick the pleasure these feminists have been neglecting.

  81. Ice Giant says:

    You’re right! You can. Except that no one is accusing Karl Stefanovic of being uninteresting. On the contrary, he’s judged by his -work- quality.

    That’s literally the whole point. Did you even read what he said? XD

  82. Ice Giant says:

    Yes! This. Lol.

  83. Ice Giant says:

    WTF is a girly man? Whatever it is, it’s certainly much more happier, healthier, handsome and gets laid more than you do. Mmmm… I want a girly man. Damn he’s sexy!

  84. aboedo29 says:

    are u still molesting kids?

  85. aboedo29 says:

    you are still molesting kids again?

  86. aboedo29 says:

    why are you still molesting children?

  87. aboedo29 says:

    so you’re still molesting little kids?

  88. aboedo29 says:

    cry harder stupid kunt lol!

  89. aboedo29 says:

    Effects of Feminism On Men: https://vimeo.com/107815754

  90. aboedo29 says:

    it’s tough being a man: https://vimeo.com/108818646

  91. aboedo29 says:

    story of feminism as told by women: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_2LpLhOsc4

  92. aboedo29 says:

    Women are too dumb to debate men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGwfodPZkI

  93. aboedo29 says:

    for your buuuutthurt lolol!

  94. aboedo29 says:

    pull your head out of your ass: feminist white knight phaggot DESTROYED! RAGEQUIT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpX8biAumdA

  95. aboedo29 says:

    for the sand in your pussssy lol! http://i.imgur.com/E6Jb71R.jpg

  96. The_El_Conquistador says:

    Bullshit story. I WISH I COULD WEAR WHATEVER I WANTED WITHOUT A FUCKING TIE! You ladies should try wearing what society (And the boss) tells you is acceptable and see how sexism gets called out. YOU try to wear a neck tie and a suite to sell ANYTHING outdoors in the warm weather months.

  97. MaleMatters says:

    Re: “Women are judged much more harshly and keenly for what they do, what they say and what they wear,” Stefanovic told Fairfax. “I’ve worn the same suit on air for a year … to make a point [and] no one has noticed; no one gives a shit.”

    That’s right — no one gives a shit what man wears.

    Stefanovic is a feminist but not a very bright one. He makes the wrong comparison. Women generally are more judged for their looks, but men are more generally judged for their status and income.

    He didn’t prove sexism but he did prove his own stupidity regarding the sexes.

    Here’s what he needs to know:

    “Wives Belong at Home with the Kids” http://malemattersusa.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/wives-belong-at-home-with-the-kids/

  98. Justin Thomas says:

    Stopped reading at the word “manchild”.

  99. Matthew Long says:

    I never said you equated asian camps to rape, I said you equated them to rape education for men.

    I’m being loose with my use of the word “punishment”. None of this discussion is about law and how law is sexist, it’s about culture and society.

    You did absolutely nothing to address my arguments with your comments regarding the lacrosse team or Conor Oberst. What do your arguments tell us? They tell us that there’s a large portion of society that does not take rape lightly and look to bestow social punishment to those that are “alleged” rapists. This is GENERALLY a positive force, except in circumstances where people are innocent, and I think this is an idea we can agree upon considering I think we all agree rape is bad. That being said, this does nothing to counter my argument that there is also a large portion of society that DOES take rape lightly, and hopes to slut-shame people who are raped to preserve the well-being of rapists. This is a WHOLLY negative force, again, considering rape is bad. Are we in agreement?

    I hope you realize the difference between “media blaming men who are innocent” vs “media blaming women who were raped”. Both sides of this are negative, but again, one of these actions is IN DEFENSE of rape, and seeks to blame the victim of a crime. I hope you recognize why this is a serious issue in particular when comparing these two side by side.

    I can’t prove definitively that those people didn’t understand that they were raping that young woman, but considering the legal implications of rape (similar to murder) to draw the conclusion they knew *exactly* what they were doing we have to wonder why they would be so open about it? If, like you say, they knew what they were doing but were “just being cocky” isn’t that a pretty loud sign that they expect society to side with them (the rapists) rather than the victim of their abuse? We’re also talking about a group of people… You wouldn’t see this type of behaviour if it were a murder for example, unless all of these people were entirely psychopathic, which is very unlikely. After this occurred, there was a major outcry AGAINST the woman involved. You can also see here:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519570/EXCLUSIVE-First-degree-rape–lmao–Shocking-tweets-center-allegations-SECOND-Steubenville-rape-months-assault-scandalised-America.html

    Police chief’s words: ‘The thing I found most disturbing about this is that there were other people around when this was going on. Nobody had the morals to say, “Hey, stop it, that isn’t right.”’

    AFTER the guilty verdict, 2 teen girls tweeted threats to the victim (as outlined here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/02/steubenville-rape-teen-girls-guilty-threats-twitter_n_3204301.html)

    These two girls were found guilty and sentenced to probation for their threats.

    I feel that the argument that the rapists knew they would be locked up for their offenses and that these girls knew they’d be in court for their threats is not supported by much evidence. So much of what happened was in a public forum and it’s hard to believe anyone would have perpetrated such crimes unless they didn’t fully understand the implications. Once they realized they would be punished, all of these perpetrators showed remorse for their actions.

    I looked up Australia, where I found that the gender pay gap is up to 30% in favour of men despite women typically being better educated. I am not surprised that when I attempted to find some kind of law in Australia about paying women more. Feel free to cite your claims.

    As for your other examples: I can agree with you that these benefits to women are “discriminatory” but these programs are built to “jump-start” equality in the same way that “discriminatory” financial support for the poor is used to “jump-start” a poor person’s financial autonomy. These programs are used to counter larger discriminatory forces such as the above mentioned 30% pay gap in Australia. Your argument that 100% of positions can be held by women vs 70% held by men does hold a degree of validity but when considering reality this argument isn’t really applicable. If we abolished poverty for example, don’t you believe the number of welfare offices etc. etc. would shrink to a point where it’s irrelevant and perhaps just there “in case of an emergency”? Why wouldn’t we believe the same to be true for these “pro-woman” programs? I for one hang out around a lot of feminists (being one myself) and every one of them would be outraged if a system like that continued to function when it’s only purpose is to prevent men from acquiring jobs/having equal ground against women.

    Why should people be commoditized at all?

    These programs are entirely in line with your ideas that gender shouldn’t have to be considered when promoting and political choices shouldn’t be limited by gender. That is why these programs exist: because today, gender IS considered when promoting (men are more likely to be promoted than women) and gender DOES limit political choices (men are more likely to hold political office). Once these are no longer issues, these programs will go the way of the dinosaur. I mean, you do realize that feminism would never have come into existence if all were equal to begin with, just like none of these programs would have ever come to exist if that were the case.

    Actions taken by NOW are overwhelmingly in favour of equality. Feminism is defined as the belief in equal rights for women. Literally. This is the definition. I don’t know much about NOW but if you’d like to cite some specific examples with evidence re: how they are propagating neo-feminism or feminist extremism I’d be happy to take a look and give you my thoughts. Based on the few brief 3rd party articles I read it doesn’t seem like they’re doing anything notably negative.

    Re alimony, I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at, considering in any of the western countries I’m very familiar with alimony isn’t settled by gender; it is the person who makes more money paying to the person who makes less. Again, if you have some kind of example re: this being discriminatory I’m happy to read, but in Canada, the US, UK at least, a woman could be required pay out to her divorced husband as well… If your argument is that lifetime alimony primarily benefits women because men usually have more money, I don’t know what to tell you. Again, it seems to me if all things were equal, this would also be a non-issue, but unfortunately men make more money, get more/better jobs, etc. If women had the same pay etc. you’d see a more equal number of alimony payees across both genders, which leads me to feel like while the status quo is the product of sexism, alimony is not in itself sexist.