We Go Inside Gus Fring’s Mind, With Giancarlo Esposito

Spoilers for Breaking Bad!

When I was asked to interview Giancarlo Esposito about his return from the dead (on Breaking Bad) for the third season of Better Call Saul, I didn’t experience the fear of God. Instead, I felt the far more chilling fear of his character, Gus Fring.

Esposito’s turn as Gus Fring combined a remarkable intellect with ruthless, sociopathic practicality to create a frighteningly efficient villain whose most memorable moment involved threatening to kill Walter White’s entire family.

Luckily, when the time for our interview came, Esposito was a) on the phone which is significantly less scary, and b) a man with all of Gus’ intelligence and insight but none of the scary bits. He had plenty to say about his return in the current season of Better Call Saul and how his yoga practice helped shape his iconic character. He also kind of teased the possibility of Gus Fring, The Musical.

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Junkee: Last season Better Call Saul spelled out your character’s name and return in the first letter of every episode title — how does it feel to come back under that kind of mounting pressure?

Giancarlo Esposito: I’m excited to come back and yes, there was a lot of pressure involved… I was excited when they did that even though we didn’t have a deal worked out yet — it gave me a little chill up my spine.

The pressure of it was that I didn’t want to disappoint my fans. I didn’t want to disappoint Vince [Gilligan] or Peter [Gould] or any of the Breaking Bad family or the new family of Better Call Saul either. There was a lot of pressure involved.

What was it like visiting Gus Fring this time around? Did you miss anything from Breaking Bad?

I don’t know if I miss anything from Breaking Bad because it was just this perfect show and also a very perfect ending for Gus and Walter White. What I enjoy about creating the new Gus, as I’ll put it, is that I have the opportunity to deconstruct and work backwards. I can find a Gus that is finding his way and finding his confidence as someone who’s a little bit more vulnerable and sensitive to not stepping on toes.

He’s figured out another way to conduct a business that’s precariously dangerous and if he could do it better — i.e. figure out a better delivery system for the product, continue to make excellent chicken, continue to lure people into his web in a very manipulative yet stealthy way — he would be building the business not only for himself but for his partners in the cartel. He’s convincing the folks that he needs to convince that he’s doing it for a reason. I’m really loving figuring out the small details which could be very, very subtle tells about who Gus is at this time.

Both you and Gus Fring seem to share a deep passion for getting jobs done right. From reading your interviews, you seem very interested in human behaviour and what makes people tick. Do you think that’s an element you bring to Gus’ character that he wouldn’t otherwise have?

I lent that to Gus. Giancarlo believes that people are intrinsically good and that we are our best and in service when we’re able to realise that. We get pulled away from that service, we get pulled away from our destiny because we get distracted by all the shiny things in life — by the paper money, by the things that paper money can buy when we really can’t take it with us.

It’s really our actions that define where our spirit lies and who we are as human beings. I believe that what we think in our brains grows and if that intention is good, then we’re on the right track. If it’s not good, then we’re not really serving ourselves because we’re all really connected in some interesting way as human beings. We have a shared consciousness.

I feel like Gus does this and it’s something that I created in the character. He mentors Max Arciniega (James Martinez); he takes him off the streets of El Salvador and he gives him an education with an agreement that Max will come and work for him later as repayment and he will also be paid millions of dollars. He takes in Gale (David Costabile), an ex-cook, and pays for part of his education and makes a deal that will compensate him beautifully for the short period of time that he may work for Gus.

Gus believes in loyalty, meritocracy and being in service to others — and allowing himself to be a channel to help other human beings realise their dreams. I think that’s a part of Gus that is very, very interesting and makes him a very undefinable villain.

One of the great things about Better Call Saul is it shows, especially in Jimmy and Chuck’s relationship, how much people influence each other. Do you think the series explores how Gus is shaped by people around him?

It’s a possibility. It’s a great question because this is a relationship drama. Jimmy and Chuck are absolutely mirrors for each other and it’s a very deep, deep relationship — one that people also have in their families. I have a brother, I have an interesting relationship with him as well, so of course they shift each other.

Gus has taught me to be more patient.

I think we very possibly could see Gus being shaped or moulded by circumstances and things that happen, hopefully with Hector Salamanca and Mike as well. We know where that ended, but we could now see where that relationship started. We can see the development of it in front of our eyes, which will be really wonderful.

What did you learn from playing Gus that you’ve carried over into your own life?

Gus has taught me to be more patient. I lent Gus the feeling and the expression of timing; I used a breathing exercise so he could slow down and create his own rhythm and timing. Whenever I think of him now, I want to take that back. I want to say ‘Don’t forget what you did in Breaking Bad, you created your own timing, you were able to settle into your spirit and not act’. It’s a gift that constantly comes back to me.

When I think of Gus, I think of the success I’ve had in the creation and the building blocks of the character.

What role would you love to do that no one would imagine you for?

One day I’d like to play Pushkin: a Russian writer and poet with the same colour skin that I have, mixed race. I’d love to be able to play a character like that. For my future, I’m looking to play characters who are obviously — well, it may not be obvious — aren’t as villainous, but are still interesting. [I’d like to play] someone who may be hiding something or struggling with a secret, but who inside is still a good person and is seeking happiness. 

Better Call Saul was originally slated to be a comedy, but it’s got so much pathos and humanity that it’s now a fully-fledged drama. On the flip side of that, if they made a Gus Fring comedy spin-off, what would you like to see him do?

I’d love to see him sing and dance. I can see Gus with his very close-to-the-vest personality and his very meticulous way about him learning how to tap dance, because of the rhythm and the timing of it. I’d love to see him maybe croon a wonderful jazz tune and do a little soft-shoe.

With moves like that, you know Gale Boetticher will be front and centre in any future production of Gus Fring, The Musical.

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Better Call Saul is on Stan now.

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Courteney Hocking is a Melbourne writer and reformed comedian who has written for Good News Week, The Guardian, The Age & Crikey. You can find her general smart-arsery & Hannibal memes @courteneyh.